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Thread: A reality check on DHS ammunition purchases.

  1. #11
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    Police Departments Beg And Barter For Ammo While DHS Buys Up 1.6 Billion Rounds In Past Year

    The nationwide shortage of ammunition has left many police departments scrambling to get their hands on the necessary rounds - with some even bartering among each other.
    Meanwhile, Rep. Timothy Huelskamp (R-Kansas) says the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has failed to respond to multiple members of Congress asking why DHS bought more than 1.6 billion rounds in the past year.
    Police Chief Cameron Arthur of Jenks, Oklahoma says, "Ammunition and assault weapons in general have skyrocketed...In addition to the fact, not only is it a lot more expensive, but the time to get it could be six months to a year, or in some cases even longer."
    Arthur says he is waiting on an order placed last October and that many departments have begun to trade and barter with each other because of the high demand.
    "Most police departments are having a very difficult time even getting the necessary ammunition for handguns, shotguns and especially rifles," Arthur said.
    "With the delay in ammunition, some departments are limiting the number of rounds they carry in their handgun because of the shortage of ammunition. We get to the point where it is difficult to have enough ammo to train and also equip the officers."
    Chief Pryor of Rollingwood, Texas says of the shortage:
    "We started making phone calls and realized there is a waiting list up to a year. We have to limit the amount of times we go and train because we want to keep an adequate stock."
    "Nobody can get us ammunition at this point," says Sgt. Jason LaCross of the Bozeman, Montana police department.
    LaCross says that manufacturers are so far behind that they won't even give him a quote for an order.
    "We have no estimated time on when it will even be available," LaCross says.
    He worries that when ammunition is finally available the high price will squeeze the department's budget.
    "The other options are to reduce the amount of training and things like that," he said.
    The Hamilton County Sheriff's Department has also cut down on firearm training due to the high cost and low supply of ammunition.
    "The concern over firearms availability and ammunition availability and potentials of gun control certainly has impacted the availability of ammunition purchased locally," Sgt. Jody Mays says.
    He says the department has cut a third of their normal in service firearm training:
    "It's forced us...to use ammunition more economically."
    Police Chief John Mabry in Marinette, Wisconsin says, "Ammo is expensive and lot tougher to get. People don't have it in stock and it's back-ordered."
    His colleague, Menominee Chief, Brett Botbyl agrees: "We're looking at a four to nine-month wait."
    Some departments have even applied for grants to pay for the high-priced ammunition.
    "The Florence Police Department is looking for some help filling its clips," reports Cincinnati.com
    Chief Tom Szurlinski says the grant would go a long way given the price and limited supply of ammunition.


    Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

  2. #12
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    Again, I wonder if the two are related. Its already been stated that they are not purchasing all at once, but over a period of 5 years. Smart acquisition strategy.

    I think the bigger issue is the general public at large buying up ammo - at a minimum you'd have to say its probably both. But one without the other may not be so big of a deal.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosher View Post
    at a minimum you'd have to say its probably both. But one without the other may not be so big of a deal.
    Exactly. Panic purchasing on top of the DHS seemingly overpurchase is combining to create the shortage.

    NRA input on the ammp shortage.

    Federal Law Enforcement Agencies Buy Ammunition

    Posted on August 17, 2012


    You may recently have seen some in the Internet rumor mill feverishly repeating the obvious truth above, in an effort to stir up fear about recent acquisitions of ammunition by the Department of Homeland Security and a number of smaller agencies. The mildest writers have questioned why seemingly mundane agencies would need ammunition at all; more incendiary authors suggest that these government agencies are preparing for a war with the American people.

    Much of the concern stems from a lack of understanding of the law enforcement functions carried about by officers in small federal agencies. These agents have the power to make arrests and execute warrants, just like their better-known counterparts at agencies like the FBI.

    For instance, the Social Security Administration
    solicited offers for 174,000 rounds of pistol ammunition. But the agency has 295 special agents who combat Social Security fraud that costs tax payers billions each year, so the order works out to roughly 590 rounds of ammunition per agent for training, mandatory quarterly qualification shooting and duty use. More than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.

    Another recent rumor questioned a request for 46,000 rounds of.40-caliber ammo by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. NOAA inadvertently fueled that speculation through a clerical error that suggested the ammunition was destined for the National Weather Service. NOAA later clarified that the ammunition was actually for the little known
    Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, which enforces laws against illegal fishing and marine life importation. The ammunition is for 63 personnel, amounting to about 730 rounds per officer.

    The most widespread of the recent rumors involves a Department of Homeland Security contract for a maximum of 450 million rounds of .40-caliber jacketed hollow-points, to be supplied over the next five years.

    After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a
    press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

    If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

    Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.

    As most gun owners will agree, skepticism of government is healthy. But today, there are more than enough actual threats to the Second Amendment to keep gun owners busy. With two key Supreme Court decisions hanging by a one-vote margin, the Justice Department deeply involved in a cover-up of a disastrous Mexican gun smuggling operation, and President Obama touting a ban on popular semi-automatic firearms, there is no need to invent additional threats to our rights.
    Last edited by telecast; 03-22-2013 at 03:28 PM.


    Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by telecast View Post
    Exactly. Panic purchasing on top of the DHS seemingly overpurchase is combining to create the shortage.
    I would further qualify by saying "Panic purchasing *caused in part* by some perceived (however errantly) notion that DHS is buying it all up."
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosher View Post
    I would further qualify by saying "Panic purchasing *caused in part* by some perceived (however errantly) notion that DHS is buying it all up."
    Maybe as of late, but not initially. The panic buying started immediately after Obama announced they were going after gun and magazine bans. This DHS thing has only hit in the last 3-4 weeks, but the panic buying started in December.


    Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

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