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Bob
10-03-2009, 07:30 PM
I decided I'm done with riding for the year. It was a bad year for riding for me, a good year for everything else though. So today I got done with a detail I had to do and decided to pull the rear fender off the bike and start taking measurements for a fender and figure out how I want the turn signals and brake lights mounted. I can't decide if I'm going to keep my stock seat or go with a La Rosa. I like the La Rosa's but I already have a solo saddle that might look sort of decent but I'm thinking it might look too wide with a little bobber fender on the rear.

I'm going to try and use the stock turn signals and mount them in a different spot. OR I might go with a brake light with integrated turns for a Ninja. That would be easier to do and doable if I keep the stock seat.

Any suggestions on brake lights or anything else? I don't want to pay $100 for a stupid brake light. All of the old style ones I found I liked where like $100+. I think that's nuts and I want this to be a cheap build and not some yuppie, the more money you spend the better sort of thing.

RedneckMedic
10-04-2009, 12:15 AM
you could use an led light strip and put it on the fender or use a trailer light and side mount it. what bike are you bobbing out? it would be interesting to see the ninja light but with a little bobbed fender i like the light strip because they can be integrated with turns also i like the set up. this guy has some good products and i will be getting one for the front of my bike soon and he his a good guy who is on one of the other forums.
http://www.ledbikelights.net/

zamochit
10-04-2009, 12:28 AM
I like those LED lights

Bob
10-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Thanks man! I'm bobbing out my Drifter.
I really like those lights you posted but they won't really fit my bike. I'm going with a skinny 6" rear fender and those look like they are for 9.5" fenders.

Bob
10-04-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm thinking this light might work well. Even has a glass for the license plate. Now I just need to figure out where I want it mounted and how I'm going to make the bracket.
http://www.etrailer.com/pc-TTL~432000.htm?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=ppc

vortech302
10-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Are you talking an older rectangular taillight? I like the half fender/LED look myself

Bob
10-04-2009, 11:35 AM
Are you talking an older rectangular taillight? I like the half fender/LED look myself

I posted a link to the light I'm probably going to get. It's a trailer light. $4.95, can't beat that. LOL And it'll have that old school look to it I think.

Bob
10-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Put my stock seat on eBay today and had it sold in an hour. So I'm going to order the new seat this week. Now all that's really left to do is the brake light and fender.

RedneckMedic
10-04-2009, 07:14 PM
good deal....the light on my bike i payed forty for wish i would have found that...i drove all over town and couldnt find a round one...ive been putting off making my seat lately and one i do im going to chop my back fender about five inches then over the winter im going to put a vtx rim on so i can get a 200 tire on and at the same time change the rear sprocket and chain..... cant wait to see what the bike looks like when its done....you could probably get some good money for the drifter fenders too

Bob
10-04-2009, 07:43 PM
good deal....the light on my bike i payed forty for wish i would have found that...i drove all over town and couldnt find a round one...ive been putting off making my seat lately and one i do im going to chop my back fender about five inches then over the winter im going to put a vtx rim on so i can get a 200 tire on and at the same time change the rear sprocket and chain..... cant wait to see what the bike looks like when its done....you could probably get some good money for the drifter fenders too

That was a good deal though! I wanted one just like yours but could only find them for like $99 with the licence plate bracket and all.

Yeah, the front fender sold like 2 months ago. The rear I've been trying to sell on ebay but decided I'm going to try and use the stock turns and then sell the fender and brake light separate I think.

Here's the seats I'll be using:
http://www.larosadesign.us/index.php?cPath=23

I think I'm going to go with black leather with the Maltese cross on the seat. Sort of go with the site logo.

Bob
10-04-2009, 09:54 PM
Here are some pics as it sits right now:


http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3760.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3761.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3762.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3763.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3764.jpg

zamochit
10-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Looks good, Bob. Get yourself an exhaust for sure, those things are long as hell. I am curious now to see how far you take it. I think you could make some small changes and that bike will look sweet.

Bob
10-04-2009, 10:50 PM
I'm actually liking the pipes. Most likely I'll ride with them like that next year. I don't see pipes in my future unless someone buys these from me. LOL I'm thought about cutting these down but because the way the Hard Krome's are designed it wouldn't work too well.

vortech302
10-04-2009, 10:52 PM
I wonder how that would look with a tan seat

Bob
10-04-2009, 10:57 PM
I wonder how that would look with a tan seat

I'm not sure. I was thinking of it but I wasn't too sure and so far everyone I asked said they think it would look crappy. I was also thinking a dark dark brown. It's so hard to say.

RedneckMedic
10-05-2009, 12:52 AM
i think a tan might work well with the creme color on the tank...diggin the white walls but if your gunna bob it i think you gotta lose the floor boards but do keep the pipes the long shots are nice

Bob
10-05-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah I've tried to get rid of the floor boards but it's not that easy. It'll require a bit of custom work I think.

Bob
10-05-2009, 10:15 PM
Drilled a couple of holes for my turn signals tonight. There is a slight possibility my legs will hit the turn signals. If so, I have 2 other holes I can use.

Gas Man
10-06-2009, 09:15 AM
Good idea Bob.

Go with a tan seat. I have a seat guy if you want to get something stock, he can rework it for you. I have 2 seat guys actually. A hand tooled tan leather seat would set the bike off! Further, consider doing a spring or shock seat. Your ass would thank you and it really adds that retro look.

I think the pipes need to be shorter for sure. I have a set of pipes I'd let you hack but they obviously wont fit. Sorry.

Loose the front reflectors!! WTF

Change out the front blinkers or get rid of them completely!

The white walls will so go with the bobber theme... leave em!

Perhaps consider powdering a bunch of the standard metal and chrome parts. I use exotic in Romulus and being I work near them I can assit with drop off if you need. Remember, powder is 30% the cost of chrome.

The air cleaner is a nice retro look already.

The headlight could use to be smaller... might shrink the front end look down a bit.

Also, if you do something with the mirrors... dont forget you can make HD mirrors fit. HD themselves sells really nice quality mirrors.

Bob
10-06-2009, 01:19 PM
I actually have a black seat on the way already. I just wasn't feeling the tan.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Bob
10-06-2009, 10:33 PM
Just ordered my brake light. I hope this $5.00 does the trick. LOL

Bob
10-08-2009, 09:25 PM
The seat kit was a pain! I got the kit from BlueCollarBobbers.com . They are excellent kits but I did not realize the Drifter was different than the regular Vulcan so much. I could only use 1/2 the kit but I got the seat on.

zamochit
10-08-2009, 10:40 PM
Lets see a pic.

Bob
10-08-2009, 11:00 PM
Lets see a pic.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3771.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3772.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3773.jpg

Bob
10-08-2009, 11:01 PM
This seat sits me lower to the ground which I like. Now just the brake light and fender left and some new treads before spring.

zamochit
10-08-2009, 11:50 PM
Love it!

New suggestion, change out the headlight for a more round one. Get rid of the oblong light, its too big. And get me that new fender so I can paint it.

vortech302
10-09-2009, 07:27 AM
Not that I'm worried about your genitalia, but that braiding sure doesn't look comfortable. Here's to not stopping too fast.

telecast
10-09-2009, 09:49 AM
I've kept out of this, mostly because I totally disagree with taking an excellent Indian Chief knock-off and converting it to a bobber.

But since you're doing it anyway, how about a nice 'before' pic, the way it looked when you got it, before you changed anything? Then some pics showing what you did over the period you had it, right up until the final unveiling of the bobber.

Bob
10-09-2009, 07:31 PM
Not that I'm worried about your genitalia, but that braiding sure doesn't look comfortable. Here's to not stopping too fast.

It's actually out of the way. If I stopped that fast I'd be into the tank anyway. LOL

Bob
10-09-2009, 07:35 PM
I've kept out of this, mostly because I totally disagree with taking an excellent Indian Chief knock-off and converting it to a bobber.

But since you're doing it anyway, how about a nice 'before' pic, the way it looked when you got it, before you changed anything? Then some pics showing what you did over the period you had it, right up until the final unveiling of the bobber.

Yeah when I get done I'll post some before and afters.

Bob
10-11-2009, 10:01 AM
good deal....the light on my bike i payed forty for wish i would have found that...i drove all over town and couldnt find a round one...ive been putting off making my seat lately and one i do im going to chop my back fender about five inches then over the winter im going to put a vtx rim on so i can get a 200 tire on and at the same time change the rear sprocket and chain..... cant wait to see what the bike looks like when its done....you could probably get some good money for the drifter fenders too

O Reily's carries the exact light I ordered. They have it for about $7.00.

Bob
10-11-2009, 11:41 AM
Late last night I was able to get the wiring complete and routed, just have to get the brake light attached. That should be in tomorrow.

I got the bracket for the brake light and license plate about 1/3 done. I just have to get the brake light to see where else I need to cut and bend. Then just paint it and mount it.

I also made a little bracket and painted it last night for under the seat. You could see all of the wires exposed so I wanted to hide them and make the rear look more complete.

I'm going to try and order the fender and brace this week. I'm torn between a 6" or 7.5" fender. The 6" will hug the tire perfectly. The 7.5" will leave space on either side and will require some cutting to get around the swing arm and chain.

Bob
10-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Just sold my rear fender on Ebay! WOO!

Bob
10-11-2009, 09:27 PM
WOO WOO! Just sold a set of saddle bag brackets as well. I'm thinking instead of trying to fab up my own fender I might get the direct bolt on one that bluecollarbobbers.com offers.

Gas Man
10-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Go PREZ

I may have to come by and check this thing out... sounds killer!

Bob
10-18-2009, 09:31 PM
It's almost done...I think. This weekend, after trying to blow the garage up, I painted and installed the license plate / brakelight bracket. I got the fender test fitted and now it's off waiting on paint. I was going to do custom paint on the entire bike but decided to just have zamochit paint the rear fender to match the tank. Got the chain cleaned and lubed. And got the headlight off and on ebay for sale.

What's left?
- Possibly new handle bars. The ones I have are really comfortable though so they will most likely stay.
- Some sheet metal work under the seat to make it look cleaner
- Rear fender paint and install
- New headlight and possibly some wiring work to hide all the extra wires that where tucked into the stock light.
- New tires and tubes
- Ride it come Spring.

Bob
10-19-2009, 01:26 PM
Here is the license plate / tail light bracket I made:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3800.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3801.jpg

telecast
10-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Cool.

You can't use that plate, there's no numbers on it!

Bob
10-19-2009, 06:21 PM
They just say you need a plate. They don't say anything about numbers!

RedneckMedic
10-19-2009, 07:43 PM
looks good is that bar next to it a fender support or sissy bar or something?

Bob
10-19-2009, 08:38 PM
looks good is that bar next to it a fender support or sissy bar or something?

It's the fender brace. I have to get the fender to Todd for paint so it's off the bike right now.

Gas Man
10-20-2009, 02:19 AM
Looks good!

Bob
10-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Thanks man.

I'm thinking tonight I might take the Vulcan emblems off the tank. I'm not an emblem guy but sort of like those. But I'm going to probably replace them with a Danase logo.

Bob
10-20-2009, 10:15 PM
Decided to ditch the chrome pipes. My new plan is to use my Hard Krome pipes but cut the chrome "shield" off of them. That leaves the core pipe. Then I'm going to paint the tip in high temp black paint and heat wrap the rest. I also need to cut the pipes down so they are not so long and that will require the baffles to be cut out. I'll see how it sounds with straight pipes but most likely I'll try and find a removable baffle to stuff in there so that when I want quiet I can have it and when I want loud I can have that too. I think that will look good when I'm done.

Gas Man
10-20-2009, 11:05 PM
Watch it with short pipes. Without any back pressure they are hard to tune.

May want to do a fender washer trick in there before you wrap them.

Bob
10-21-2009, 01:12 PM
Watch it with short pipes. Without any back pressure they are hard to tune.

May want to do a fender washer trick in there before you wrap them.

Yeah, I'll most likely go with baffles. Although all of the VN800 guys I've talked to running custom short straight pipes have had no issues.

What is the fender washer trick?

Gas Man
10-22-2009, 01:15 AM
A simple design... like this
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/Wrenchin/006.jpg

And you can turn it to aid in the amount of back pressure for tuning.

Bob
10-22-2009, 08:34 PM
A simple design... like this
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/Wrenchin/006.jpg

And you can turn it to aid in the amount of back pressure for tuning.

Thanks man! I found a site that dyno tested the washer at different angles on a HD.

Bob
10-25-2009, 11:03 PM
Here are the pipes ready to be sandblasted.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/IMG_3814.jpg

Bob
10-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Pipes are sand blasted. I just need to get them sometime today. I'm going to try and paint them tonight and then heat wrap them this weekend.

junkyardjon
10-27-2009, 07:20 PM
Here is the license plate / tail light bracket I made:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3800.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3801.jpg


looking at that pic i know that plate bracket will vibrate bad and probly break off. it's to thin, needs more beef.

Bob
10-27-2009, 08:59 PM
looking at that pic i know that plate bracket will vibrate bad and probly break off. it's to thin, needs more beef.

Yeah, I need to weld a gusset in there before spring.

Bob
11-02-2009, 11:27 AM
Exhaust finished!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3866.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/2002%20Vulcan%20Drifter/IMG_3867.jpg

zamochit
11-02-2009, 09:24 PM
That looks great, Bob. The exhaust is perfect!

Gas Man
11-02-2009, 11:18 PM
ditch the blinkers... you dont need em!

Bob
11-05-2009, 11:48 PM
Fender got dropped off for paint today. I worked out a trade for the paint. LOL Should be done next week and hopefully on next weekend.

junkyardjon
11-08-2009, 11:46 AM
did you cut the heat shield off or just wrap'em?

Bob
11-08-2009, 01:32 PM
did you cut the heat shield off or just wrap'em?

I cut it off. The chrome was all one big heat shield so I cut the chrome off. They get a little hot but I think once the bike is moving it won't get hot unless it's sitting for a while, at least not hot enough to make it uncomfortable.

Bob
12-13-2009, 10:16 PM
Ended up cutting my new plate bracket up and sort of started over. I think I went a little overkill so I'm redoing it, again. I had one more weld to make and ran out of wire so hopefully next weekend it's all welded up and ready to hit with some paint.

zamochit
12-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Where the hell is the new fender? Its been what a month since its been at the painters?

Bob
12-14-2009, 08:11 AM
Where the hell is the new fender? Its been what a month since its been at the painters?

I probably won't get it on for a few weeks yet. If I want it done now they'd do it now for me but I told them I was in no hurry and I know they are slammed with insurance work. I'm in no hurry. The faster I get it on the bike the better chances I have of damaging it. LOL

zamochit
12-14-2009, 09:22 PM
Slammed? Everyone I talk to says their shops are dead. That fiberglass fender will get wasted sitting around that shop too.

Bob
12-14-2009, 09:29 PM
Slammed? Everyone I talk to says their shops are dead. That fiberglass fender will get wasted sitting around that shop too.

Yeah, they are really busy right now and the fender is sitting in his office out of the way. I saw it. ;)

junkyardjon
12-14-2009, 10:22 PM
my work is busy as well. i work at a body shop, oh the joy of crappy weather LOL

what color you going with? i'm big into flake!!!!

Bob
12-14-2009, 10:31 PM
my work is busy as well. i work at a body shop, oh the joy of crappy weather LOL

what color you going with? i'm big into flake!!!!


Yeah when I was there they had a few in the shop and two outside waiting. they only have 2 guys so it doesn't take long for them to get busy. LOL

You're not that big of a flake Jon. hahahaha! I kid, I kid!
I'm just matching the tank color.

Gas Man
12-14-2009, 11:02 PM
Bob is this shop in Trenton? Dave's shop?

Bob
12-14-2009, 11:07 PM
Bob is this shop in Trenton? Dave's shop?

Yeah, it's Dave and Dave.

Gas Man
12-15-2009, 11:38 PM
Yep. best shop in the DR.

Bob
12-16-2009, 11:28 PM
Fender is done! I want to get it this week but I probbaly won't get it installed for a few weeks yet because I forgot my license plate bracket I'm making has to go on with the fender brace. LOL

Bob
12-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Got the fender and got the brackets installed on it this morning and siliconed them. Also got my bracket done and painted. This weekend I should have no problems getting the light bracket and fender done and probably even a headlight done since Trainguy sent me a light! Then the bike can be tucked away until Spring.

Gas Man
12-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Remove the blinkers!





No I will not stop.

Bob
12-22-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm going to keep them on just to upset Chris! I might even add 6 more blinkers!

Gas Man
12-22-2009, 12:33 PM
http://www.curbly.com/uploads/photos/0000/0001/1440/sawzall_large.jpg

Bob
12-22-2009, 01:55 PM
Just added 4 more blinkers in the front and ordered 8 for the rear.

hahahahaha!

Bob
12-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Got the fender and the headlight done today. Now I just need to keep my eyes open for some good tire deals so I can have those done for Spring.

Gas Man
12-26-2009, 11:15 PM
and remove the blinkers.

zamochit
12-27-2009, 12:06 AM
Lets see updated pics.

Bob
02-07-2010, 09:03 PM
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/3471/img4074w.jpg

Bob
02-07-2010, 09:06 PM
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7474/img4075t.jpg

Trainguy
02-07-2010, 11:19 PM
Looks Good Bob. I really like the headlight:cool:

Gas Man
02-08-2010, 01:00 AM
Love 90% of it!

Headlight does look good!

_DK_
03-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Nice, though I agree about the blinkers...

Lop them off, the reflectors too... then paint everything black and make it a SOHC and then it would be perfection! ;-P

telecast
03-05-2010, 12:24 PM
Looks good! I just wish you hadn't started with this:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/danase/before.jpg

I'm just too big a fan of the bagger and/or classic look. Love bobbers too, but man, that bike looked very cool in its original form. Just add an Indian nameplate.....

_DK_
03-05-2010, 01:24 PM
I can appreciate that as is, but that's not me at all! I cant see myself on that.

telecast
03-05-2010, 02:04 PM
It'd look great on you!

_DK_
03-05-2010, 03:41 PM
It's only got 2 cylinders!, :D

telecast
03-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Yeah, but they're bigguns!

Bob
04-12-2010, 09:17 PM
And finally.......


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CoIx10oft8k/S8O17uyGWhI/AAAAAAAAAIY/HV2Xg5EgjGg/s640/IMG_4140.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CoIx10oft8k/S8O2YioAdpI/AAAAAAAAAIg/-Aj-z1A7DOE/s640/IMG_4138.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CoIx10oft8k/S8O2mMdN7bI/AAAAAAAAAIw/hy9cj7Zb1MU/s640/IMG_4143.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CoIx10oft8k/S8O2f8t4ahI/AAAAAAAAAIo/Lan5Q0BR-eM/s640/IMG_4142.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CoIx10oft8k/S8O2rYoQ6aI/AAAAAAAAAI4/zO56bqrQDXk/s640/IMG_4141.JPG

RedneckMedic
04-12-2010, 09:21 PM
love those venoms on there bike looks good bud now we need to go for a ride

Bob
04-12-2010, 09:31 PM
love those venoms on there bike looks good bud now we need to go for a ride

Thanks! I was sort of worried they might look too "new style" if that makes any sense but once I got them on I loved them.

Gas Man
04-12-2010, 11:08 PM
LED strips under the seat so you can ditch the god awefull blinkers!!

Honestly, if you would ditch the big ugle metric orange blinkers, as well as the stupid orange reflector on the front fork. The bike would freakin AWESOME!

Either way... great job.

Gas Man
04-12-2010, 11:15 PM
Here's some ideas...

Front:
http://customdynamics.com/wrap_around_LED_fork_clamps.htm


Rear:
http://customdynamics.com/integrated_led_light_bars.htm

They use to have some nice flexible sealed up units you could run under your seat...

telecast
04-13-2010, 09:05 AM
Those are slick as hell, but $260 for the front set? The rear seems reasonable @ $60. I can see the fronts going for $125 or so with the billet, but holy crap....

Gas Man
04-13-2010, 11:59 AM
Just some quick examples...

Gas Man
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
What about running this under the seat or under the rear fender
http://customdynamics.com/integrated_led_light_bars.htm

Could just smoke out the lenses on the front.

_DK_
04-13-2010, 11:07 PM
Whatcha need blinkers for?

Gas Man
04-13-2010, 11:30 PM
Whatcha need blinkers for?
I hear ya... when I re-did my chop I ditched em.

RedneckMedic
04-14-2010, 01:33 AM
ya im just running rear signals and thats only until i decide what to do with my rear fender i may ditch them plus i dont use them half the time anyway excepts for turning. when i change lanes i just use my arm as i check my blind spot (which is huge with only one mirror).

_DK_
04-15-2010, 11:04 AM
ya im just running rear signals and thats only until i decide what to do with my rear fender i may ditch them plus i dont use them half the time anyway excepts for turning. when i change lanes i just use my arm as i check my blind spot (which is huge with only one mirror).

Only one mirror on mine too, It had a little bitty one that I couldn't see around my body at all, Cutter gave me the old ones off his K9 and one of those works perfect for me.

Bob
04-19-2010, 09:34 PM
Thanks guys. The reflectors will probably come off one day when I have the cutting wheel out again. I'm in no hurry but I also do not like them.

One of these days the signals will probably be gone but it'll leave a nice hole where the fronts are so I just have to deal with that when I have some time. Right now I'm sort of wanting to take a break from working on it and just ride it.

sevenplusone
04-20-2010, 03:10 AM
This has been one of my favorite threads on here. I dig that bike big time.

wango
04-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Thanks! I was sort of worried they might look too "new style" if that makes any sense but once I got them on I loved them.


+1 on the venoms, nice job bob, looks great

Bob
04-20-2010, 05:31 PM
Thanks guys!

Doug
04-21-2010, 09:40 AM
Thanks guys. The reflectors will probably come off one day when I have the cutting wheel out again. I'm in no hurry but I also do not like them.

One of these days the signals will probably be gone but it'll leave a nice hole where the fronts are so I just have to deal with that when I have some time. Right now I'm sort of wanting to take a break from working on it and just ride it.

Now yer talkin.

Nice work Bob.

Bob
07-05-2010, 10:11 PM
I made and installed a heat shield on the upper pipe this weekend and am 1/2 way done on the shield for the bottom pipe. I burnt my leg on the upper this weekend and melted some of my boot to the bottom. I'm sure the shields I made are not going to be a cure all but I'm hoping they help a little. I think my next project is going to be a set of highway pegs.