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View Full Version : Thinking about a Harley? Buy now.



telecast
09-20-2009, 09:01 AM
Word is HD is cutting production for 2010. If they do it'll mean a return to the dreaded waiting list and used bike prices through the roof.

This probably shouldn't be surprising after their lay-off of 1,000 people a few months ago. The economy is so bad that even the yuppies are holding onto their cash. The waiting list probably won't come immediately, but once the economy ramps up it's going to take them a while to get bikes to the dealers. And if it ever returns to the boom we had in the 80's and 90's they'll probably make damned sure there's a waiting list at every dealer.

Gas Man
09-20-2009, 10:14 AM
See I have my 2 HDs in the garage so I'm all about this. Bring back some more luster to HD and help retain their use values more.

That means that if you want a HD and dont own one. Buy used and ride it till you can get one off the waiting list. Very few on the showroom kinda sucks for owners like me that like to kick the tires on the new models.

Bob
09-20-2009, 01:38 PM
They need to lower there prices and remember the people that made them so big way back in the day. It's not like they are 100% made in the USA. They farm out to China and raise their prices. Makes no sense. LOL

Mikekz
09-20-2009, 01:58 PM
amen on the lowering of prices Harleys are overpriced.Its kinda like buying a green tractor.Buying it for the name or the color is rediculous.Harley owners should buy for the history behind the name, same with John Deere. Everyone knows they dont build them like they use too. LOL

Gas Man
09-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Are they over priced? Compare the HD to what? What compares to them? Victory is priced up there. The metric bikes simply don't measure up. Sure they all have 2 wheels, a motor, some chrome, pipes, and brakes. But there is so much more into it then that. You are buying into the bike, the R&D, everything. HD does R&D on everything, even the sound coming from every aspect of the bike. The dealerships are considerably better than even the best metric dealer. The HD branded aftermarket alone is probably more than all metric brands combined. That doesn't even include the non branded aftermarket for a HD.

It is no different with HD than with anything else made here in the states. Let's compare leathers. A Brooks leather will run you $400+. But you can get some pakistanian crap for $175. They are both leather jackets, right? Sure, but there is no comparison in quality. The Brooks leather is twice as thick, uses way better snaps, and zippers. Carries a 5 yr warrenty (lifetime if you buy it through AM Leather in Romulus). Will the pakistanian do the trick for the most part? sure. Will I ever buy one again? NO FUCKIN WAY! I have learned that lesson.

If you don't understand that's fine, I won't hold it against you. But perhaps look further into it. Get to the nitty gritty of the product. I work on all kinds of bikes. My opinion is just that, but at least its founded by an immense expierence across the board.

telecast
09-20-2009, 03:13 PM
Everyone knows they dont build them like they use too. LOL

God, I hope not. They used to leak oil and break down all the time, those days are gone. Harley stepped up to the plate with the EVO motor and hasn't looked back since.

Mikekz
09-20-2009, 06:34 PM
No one said that they were junk just overly expensive. Everyone would probably own one if they were affordable because they are an american Icon.

gthong
09-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Current harley owner.. and former owner of 6 differnt Harleys from Fatboys to Screaming eagle Road glide.

IMHO.. yes.. they are overpriced and under engineered.

Yes.. you are buying a lifestyle as much as a motorcycle.. and that's OK to.. some of my best motorcyle memories are "Harley based" Daytona or sturgis events for sure.

Yes.. Harley got greedy and upped production so THEY made all the money.. not the dealers. what they didn't bet on.. was that also killed the resale of their used bikes...and many guys with the brains to have the money to buy a Harley... also have the brains to know they arent worth losing 5-7 grand on year after year. There was a time you could ride a Harley for "free".. now it much tougher... So.. Harley got what it deserved.

NEVER, NEVER.. BUY A NEW HARLEY.. BUY A USED ONE, CASH, WITH SOME EXTRAS INSTALLED.. EXTRA's ARE WORTH SOME MONEY... LET'S FACE IT.. YOU WANT THOSE EXTRAS!!!!!

Don't by a Harley thinking you are buying the best bike.. you are buying a Harley.. and if that's enough.. that's cool. I will never be the fastest, quickest stopping, most comfortable, best value... but I will be "harley cool"

excuse me while I put my soapbox away.

Gas Man
09-20-2009, 11:30 PM
I will put my HD up to any comparison of any metric bike intended as the same. Under engineered? Hmmm... I disagree and would like to see hard proof otherwise. I wont defend some of the older bike but 2009 to 2009.

over priced? Compared to what? They are close in price to Victory bikes. And the metrics dont even compare.

Whichever. This is an endless debate. But my garage is always open for any bike. While in, I'm more than willing to back up my opinion with honest part to part comparison.

telecast
09-21-2009, 07:42 AM
You want to see overpriced? Check out an Indian. Their least expensive model goes for around $23,000.00, the most expensive is $35,000.

Let's look at some real world prices. A new Road King has an MSRP of $18,000 and is about $19,500.00 OTD. I know that, I checked.

A new Kaw Vulcan 1700 (I picked this bike because it's one of the most popular, and IMO probably comes the closest of all the metrics) has an MSRP of $13,800. Add another $1200 or so for tax, freight, etc. Figure around $15000. You could probably swing a deal off the Kaw below MSRP, but I have no idea how much so I won't speculate.

Ok, obviously the new Harley is about 25% more money. But take a look at a good used bike. My '07 with 9k miles was $13750 OTD, with a new rear tire, a new QD sissy bar, and a new windshiled, all HD, no aftermarket stuff.

Let's say for argument that you swing a deal on the new Kaw for $13750 OTD. Same as my bike. I drive my bike off the lot and it's worth...$13,750. The Kaw buyer drives his off the lot and it's worth...about $10k.

One example. There are plenty of ways to make this go the other way too. The place I bought mine from has a nice '07 Vulcan outfitted like mine for $8k.

But if you say "I bought a new metric because I couldn't afford a Harley", you're wrong.

Bob
09-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Current harley owner.. and former owner of 6 differnt Harleys from Fatboys to Screaming eagle Road glide.

IMHO.. yes.. they are overpriced and under engineered.

Yes.. you are buying a lifestyle as much as a motorcycle.. and that's OK to.. some of my best motorcyle memories are "Harley based" Daytona or sturgis events for sure.

Yes.. Harley got greedy and upped production so THEY made all the money.. not the dealers. what they didn't bet on.. was that also killed the resale of their used bikes...and many guys with the brains to have the money to buy a Harley... also have the brains to know they arent worth losing 5-7 grand on year after year. There was a time you could ride a Harley for "free".. now it much tougher... So.. Harley got what it deserved.

NEVER, NEVER.. BUY A NEW HARLEY.. BUY A USED ONE, CASH, WITH SOME EXTRAS INSTALLED.. EXTRA's ARE WORTH SOME MONEY... LET'S FACE IT.. YOU WANT THOSE EXTRAS!!!!!

Don't by a Harley thinking you are buying the best bike.. you are buying a Harley.. and if that's enough.. that's cool. I will never be the fastest, quickest stopping, most comfortable, best value... but I will be "harley cool"

excuse me while I put my soapbox away.

Nice post man. I agree 100%

Bob
09-21-2009, 09:34 AM
I will put my HD up to any comparison of any metric bike intended as the same. Under engineered? Hmmm... I disagree and would like to see hard proof otherwise. I wont defend some of the older bike but 2009 to 2009.

over priced? Compared to what? They are close in price to Victory bikes. And the metrics dont even compare.

Whichever. This is an endless debate. But my garage is always open for any bike. While in, I'm more than willing to back up my opinion with honest part to part comparison.


Why do you keep saying that metrics don't even compare? Like look at the Sportsters. I wanted one and almost bought one this year. But like $12000 out the door? That'd get me a 1600 Mean streak or a 1300 VXT or something. When I went to the motorcycle show this year I went in wanting a HD really bad. After seeing what everyone else was making and their prices I just felt you get so much more bang for the buck with the metrics.

Don't get me wrong. I don't bad mouth HD and would still love to have one. I love their Cross Bones and Rockers and the Dyna line. I just don't think they are the best bang for the buck. I think most people, not ALL, that get them get them for some sort of status symbol, which is cool to be part of that.

vortech302
09-21-2009, 11:09 AM
Don't get me wrong. I don't bad mouth HD and would still love to have one. I love their Cross Bones and Rockers and the Dyna line. I just don't think they are the best bang for the buck. I think most people, not ALL, that get them get them for some sort of status symbol, which is cool to be part of that.

I'll be honest, I wanted that V Star 950 when I seen the price was less than $8000, but I switched to wanting a Harley cause of the status.

Bob
09-21-2009, 11:53 AM
I'll be honest, I wanted that V Star 950 when I seen the price was less than $8000, but I switched to wanting a Harley cause of the status.

Yeah, I love the VStars man. A buddy of mine had one and instead of letting me know when he was going to sell it he traded it in at the dealer.

That was one of the reasons I wanted a HD too. You seem to get more respect. But when it comes down to it I think money will talk if I ever buy new.

I think you'd be happy on a Sportster man. You have to ride my bike one day. It's only an 800 but it'll give you a feel for a cruiser.

Gas Man
09-21-2009, 01:21 PM
Why do you keep saying that metrics don't even compare? Like look at the Sportsters. I wanted one and almost bought one this year. But like $12000 out the door? That'd get me a 1600 Mean streak or a 1300 VXT or something. When I went to the motorcycle show this year I went in wanting a HD really bad. After seeing what everyone else was making and their prices I just felt you get so much more bang for the buck with the metrics.

Don't get me wrong. I don't bad mouth HD and would still love to have one. I love their Cross Bones and Rockers and the Dyna line. I just don't think they are the best bang for the buck. I think most people, not ALL, that get them get them for some sort of status symbol, which is cool to be part of that.

i don't understand. my BIL has a VTX1300 and my wife's 883 would keep pace EASY if not out run it. And that was only $7300. The wife's nightster was $10500 or somin. It will SMOKE those metrics. Its freakin fast and very flickable for a heavy cruiser. And the looks. The nightster is badass looking vs what?

At the end of the day. HD is the big boy on the block. Everybody else, that being metric, bdm, victory, indian, etc... they are all trying to bite off a piece. Look at the new victory line up. Those new baggers are there to bite at the Street Glide and Road Glide. Your various other metric models are trying their best to emmulate one of the hd models.

Its like this... another example. My neighbor has his Honda Shadow. he put a V&H Pro Pipe 2:1. Sounds great on a HD, sounds like a steroid pumped popcorn machine on his bike. Horrible. What makes it horrible, why cant his loud sound be good? Because the standard of measurement is HD. When people think of a cruiser they think hd. When they hear a bike, what people want to hear is HD.

oh and buy the way... both my buds that are on Hondas. Are looking at Ultras.

Bob
09-21-2009, 01:49 PM
I agree the Sportsters do handle very well!

I think it's just because the HD's have so much more torque maybe? Maybe the powerband is different? Or do they just make more ponies all around?

telecast
09-21-2009, 01:54 PM
...After seeing what everyone else was making and their prices I just felt you get so much more bang for the buck with the metrics.

There's some truth to that, but it's no different than saying I bought a Chevy instead of a Cadillac, right? The Chevy goes down the road, is safe, carries the same number of passengers, gets about the same mileage. What's not to like? Yet people spend the big bucks on Cadillacs all the time.

The big difference here is when you go to sell the Caddy you're going to do much better than the Chevy. Same with the Harley. There's a lot more to 'bang for your buck' than the up-front cost.


...I think most people, not ALL, that get them get them for some sort of status symbol, which is cool to be part of that.

I got mine because I've wanted one for a very long time. When I bought my Gibson Les Paul I bought it because I had wanted one. I could've easily picked up any number of other guitars that would've accomplished the exact same thing, but they weren't a Gibson. I could've easily bought any number of bikes that would've accomplished the exact same thing, but they weren't a Harley.

It's like anything else. Guys who own and fly small airplanes love Cessna. Guys who collect trains want Lionel. Guys who collect knives look to Schrade and Case.

I really didn't intend for this to become an argument, I was just passing on some info I picked up. Take it for what it is. If you've been thinking Harley, now is a good time. If not, then the post shouldn't make any difference to you.

Gas Man
09-21-2009, 10:28 PM
Great POV Tele.

Berto
09-21-2009, 10:50 PM
i don't understand. my BIL has a VTX1300 and my wife's 883 would keep pace EASY if not out run it.


Wow wow wow... I have to step in now since you brought me and my baby into it...

The sportster is the only Harley I like but...

Uhmmm... I have to see that to believe it... That is all the rider. I BET ANY OF YOU... YES ANY OF YOU... that you CANNOT keep up with me on my VTX in the twisties if you are on ANY cruiser... now, if I'm on the DRZ, 400cc and 36 HP, NOT ONE OF YOU can keep up with me in a tight set of twisties... tight = 45MPH or less... And you can be on a gixxer if you want or your choice of sport bike. For that matter, I will BET my next year paycheck that NOT ONE PERSON on this site can keep up with my buddy Mike on his Kawi 1200... Yup... old school bike and he'd school ANYONE on it. He checks out on me without trying... and that's hard to do.

With that said, it is all about the rider... not the bike when it comes to "keeping up"... HD are great bikes, not for me but for millions out there that like them. I like my Supermoto, not for everyone, actually, less likely to be liked by most people over a Harley.

Go back to the very good discussion, but let's keep performance of keeping up to the rider, NOT the bike. Maintenance intervals, reliability, power to the ground... all great performance topics of argument. This bike will hang with that bike, not fair unless the same rider is being considered.


And on Tele's comment... yeah, the Epi vs Gibson argument. I have an Epi LP... love it, does the job specially for an amateur as me... I would LOVE a Gibson LP Goldtop... hmmmm... boner just thinking about it... but you hit the nail on the head with that comparo... for those of you that know guitars.

Gas Man
09-22-2009, 01:35 AM
Well Berto... I'm not referring to twists. Flat out, straight lines, highway, secondary road, etc. Dead start, roll on, which ever.

telecast
09-22-2009, 07:28 AM
This is another one of those topics with so many side issues you'll never nail it down. Performance, to me, is irrelevant. As long as the bike gets out of it's own way and can hit the highway, I'm good. Maybe I got that out of my system on the trails and backroads when I was growing up. Handling a bike was second nature long before a driver's license was even on my radar. (and my dear mother still wonders why I want to ride a bike)

Admittedly, I'm not what I once was. So much time in between bikes and the added years do tend to catch up. I love twisty roads, but not at high speed. I like to cruise and enjoy the ride.

No matter. We can ride together, even if you are terribly misguided! :p

vortech302
09-22-2009, 09:44 AM
Performance, to me, is irrelevant. As long as the bike gets out of it's own way and can hit the highway

As long as I can run drugs and guns in the saddle bags, that's good enough for me.

telecast
09-22-2009, 10:13 AM
Why Son, you're talking Anarchy!

Gas Man
09-22-2009, 12:08 PM
No matter. We can ride together, even if you are terribly misguided! :p

Quote of the day!

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Posting/U%20or%20thread%20sucks/thread_cooler_dog_w_afro.jpg