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View Full Version : Audio -- err .. lost and confused ...



glacieredlightning
04-16-2015, 12:26 PM
Can someone explain the basic about audio things to me???

Problem: I have the boom infotainment unit but the stock speakers aren't worth much and at speeds over 50 one can barely hear the radio.

I have been trying to figure out what kind of amp I'll need for my bike... I think I need an amp to fix the problem... If I need an amp and speakers then is it safe to assume that one speaker equals one channel on the amp or is that not a safe assumption??:?:

Possible solution: Replace speakers with some after-market 2-way or 3-way speakers

RedneckMedic
04-16-2015, 01:06 PM
I'm not familiar with the audio on the 14+ bikes but added an amp all depends on the the resistance of the speakers that are present. I would look on the hd forums or bike specific forums to see what guys have been doing to the new bikes. You may be able to add just an amp since the new speakers are 6.5 but I can't comment on the quality.

A few of the guys here just installed some infinity kappas and are happy with them but I know they have amps driving them as well as tweeters.
I'm running a Hawg wired system which I like. Do a search and I think we have an audio thread some wheres.

Gas Man
04-18-2015, 12:52 AM
Here's the thing with audio on bikes...

Hogtunes amps run at 2ohm stable. What that means is that the amp requires less electricity from the bike to make speaker wattage... this is good because electricity power is limited. Now the issue is that if you want to get all the power out of that 2ohm stable (the advertised wattage output), you need a 2ohm stable speaker.

The majority of other amps and speakers that are "for MCs" are actually just the smaller car amps. Further amps like the rockford that don't have fans on them will have problems in your fairing with heat. They have overheat protection circuits which as the amp gets hotter will "turn down" their output to save them from over heating. This is a good and bad thing, good thing that they protect themselves, but very bad for output levels. So after so many mins in the heat, your amp output can actually decrease.

Hogtunes amps are specifically designed the bikes. They are 2 ohm stable and have fans.... see what I mean?

Now I actually replaced my Hogtunes 5.25" fairing speakers with Infinity Kappas 6.5", both are 2 ohm speakers. The 6.5 are much clearer, and handle the bass much better. The Kappas are about one of the only 2 ohm 6.5" speakers out.

And which radio do you have in your 14? The big touch screen one or the smaller one? Isn't there a difference in output?

glacieredlightning
04-19-2015, 12:30 PM
I have read so many articles on websites that I am more confused now from when I started out :(

Thanks for the explanation Chris. It makes a lil bit more sense.

My bike has that 6.5 GT boom audio head unit and the 15 RGS comes with the 6.5" speakers but those aren't the boom 1 or boom 2 speakers. So if I am reading your write-up correctly, I should replace the stock speakers with another speaker pair which runs at 2 ohms and is 6.5".

In addition to that I should look at a amp that also runs at 2 ohms.

Question about these amps ... when does one use a 2 channel amp and when does one use a 4 channel amp?
Amps usually have a number like 200x2x4 ... what do these numbers mean?

Gas Man
04-19-2015, 12:42 PM
That's the premium radio.

I'm not sure what the boom amp & speaker system stats are for the new stuff. What I would do is call over to Hogtunes and discuss with them. They are super knowledgeable about all of this, including the boom stuff.

The extra (x4) on that amp sounds weird. usually it's Wattage output x how many channels. Think of each speaker as a channel. (don't think about the fact that most speakers have a tweeter in each speaker unit, that counts as one speaker) So a 200x2 is 200 watts to each speaker = 400 total wattage. a 100x4 is a 400 watt amp with 100 going to each speaker.

Now if you have a 200x2 at 2ohm stable amp we know that's 400 watts total. However, if you put a 4 ohm speaker on those two channels, it will have more resistance from those speakers and that will reduce its effective wattage output. How much? That will depend and usually is indicated on the amp's spec sheet. So ohms ratings are important to watch.

And I'm not saying that you can't run a 4 ohm system. It might be fine and I may over react about it. But there are factors to figure. Your bike's stator output, and then less all the components drawing on that. Draw too much and you won't be charging your battery, you'll instead by killing it and eventually you will run out of power and die with a dead battery.

glacieredlightning
04-20-2015, 10:47 AM
Ahh, that makes so much more sense now!!!! 200x2 means 2 speakers at 200W each and 100x4 means 4 speakers running at 100W each and in both cases we have a 400w amp, correct???

And the total number of speakers would define the channels on the amp, so if I wanted to run 4 speakers up front, I'd need a 4 channel amp??

you mention "(don't think about the fact that most speakers have a tweeter in each speaker unit, that counts as one speaker)" ... is this also what they call a 2-way speaker? Or is the 2-way/3-way speaker something totally different?

Going to call the guys over at hog tunes in a few ... as soon as I get out of this conference call .. :)

Gas Man
04-20-2015, 11:02 AM
Ahh, that makes so much more sense now!!!! 200x2 means 2 speakers at 200W each and 100x4 means 4 speakers running at 100W each and in both cases we have a 400w amp, correct???

And the total number of speakers would define the channels on the amp, so if I wanted to run 4 speakers up front, I'd need a 4 channel amp??

you mention "(don't think about the fact that most speakers have a tweeter in each speaker unit, that counts as one speaker)" ... is this also what they call a 2-way speaker? Or is the 2-way/3-way speaker something totally different?

Going to call the guys over at hog tunes in a few ... as soon as I get out of this conference call .. :)

Yes sir... your 1st example would both be a 400 watt amp.

Yes # of speakers indicates how many channels you need.

a 2-way or 3-way speaker from the amps/channels perspective is one speaker/channel. If you drill deeper, those are 2 or 3 speakers within the one channel.

When you call hogtunes, talk about it with them. I like their amps, but their 5.25" speakers are a bit lacking. I haven't heard their new 6.5" for the newer bikes. I'm sure if you aren't satisfied they would let you return them. Also, when you buy direct, they have a great warranty...

glacieredlightning
04-20-2015, 02:06 PM
Errr, noob question of the hr ... these are all marine grade aka waterproof speakers, correct???

Gas Man
04-20-2015, 03:15 PM
Not nessisarly. The Kappas are not. But have a proven track record in the bikes. Further, they are only $125 for a set of 6.5".

glacieredlightning
04-21-2015, 08:31 AM
hmmm ... one would think that a waterproof speaker is what one would want since these are all going to be exposed to the occasional rain and garden hose.

Gas Man
04-21-2015, 08:40 AM
True... but that limits it.

Try to find a good 2 way speaker that is 6.5", and 2 ohm.

There's not a bunch of them....

Moesride
04-21-2015, 02:06 PM
Well, as of late I have been the " test dummy" in every sense of the word with speakers. I was running the older style hogtune speakers and decided to give the J@M 7.25 performance speakers a shot. Disappointing to say the least. Big speaker with small performance In my opinion. Then after speaking with the guys at Hogtunes I decided to go with the new Gen 3 352F-AA 5.25 hogtune speakers and to me it didn't sound any better than the previous model. So I sent them back. Keep in mind that the boys at Hogtune are great people with a lot of knowledge coupled with great service. I think I was just expecting a little more out of the speaker.
So eventually I also ended up with the Infinity Kappa and am really digging these speakers. Loud, crisp..... perfect for my setup.
As far as the waterproof issue , not much worried about it. I don't see a fail issue anytime soon. And if they do, I will snatch up another set for the cost. Best 2 ohm out there in my opinion.
Bagger Dave scored on these with his time and research ......

glacieredlightning
04-22-2015, 08:29 AM
fyi ... found out that rockford now makes a amp for bikes that is fan cooled, similar to the hogtunes amps .."Rockford Fosgate Power T400X4ad" ...$500.00 though :idk:

Kosher
04-22-2015, 11:26 AM
Id also check into Focal speakers.

Gas Man
04-22-2015, 11:55 PM
fyi ... found out that rockford now makes a amp for bikes that is fan cooled, similar to the hogtunes amps .."Rockford Fosgate Power T400X4ad" ...$500.00 though :idk:
I see that... and runs at 4 or 2 ohm. So I wonder what they say about cramming it into an already hot area of a harley fairing.... might be worth a call to Rockford if possible.

glacieredlightning
04-24-2015, 08:07 AM
I see that... and runs at 4 or 2 ohm. So I wonder what they say about cramming it into an already hot area of a harley fairing.... might be worth a call to Rockford if possible.

I sent an email to the RF tech support folks late last night. I'll let all y'all know what they reply back with. As of now I have asked them for clarification/advice on the following:

***
- While this is a fan cooled amp, would it be advisable to install this thing under the fairing?
- For optimal performance and the best quality of sound output, should one be using 2 Ohm or 4 ohm speakers with this amp?
***

Any other questions that y'all want me to run by them?

Gas Man
04-24-2015, 11:06 AM
Not that I can think of. They make a great product, but motorcycles have a special set of circumstances that cars don't. Very limited power available, and where we store amps is tight space that doesn't have moving air.

glacieredlightning
04-30-2015, 08:42 AM
Sorry for the late reply ... been running around at work and all the free time I had was spent riding :):)

Reply from RF Tech guy

" Response Via Email(Forrest) - 04/24/2015 04:21 PM
it it ok to put under faring, you can use either 2 or 4 ohm speakers. we make a bracket for the 2013 and down, i have had guys tell me it works fine for the 15, but you might have to drill a new hole. and it only comes in the kit, rfxhd9813 "


​hmmm .....

Gas Man
04-30-2015, 11:39 PM
Well that sounds promising...

Give it a try.

Chain
05-15-2015, 01:20 PM
Don't know how I missed this... but I've been running the Rockford Fosgate since 2012(on the SG), that amp is going all the time... its the Punch PBR300x4 4 ohms only... never a problem, it's mounted on a plate above the radio, it DOES get warm... but (Knock on wood GD it!!!!) never has shut down... I don't know shit really about stereo systems, just enough to get me in trouble... I also have the in bag speaker 6x9's (6.5s up front) I put some cloth over them with scotch brite water proof shit, we've been in numerous down pours and NOT one problem with them either, and they are flush mounts, just right for catching rain...

Running this system in the RG too, minus the bag speakers...

Oh, and battery, this is the original battery in the 2010 SG.... no issues thus far.

If I just jinxed myself I'm gonna be throwing some nut kicks, so stay outa the way! ;)

GM makes a lot of sense, so NO disagreement on his take, he researches more than me for sure. Just my experience thus far. We put some miles down so the systems do get used.

Gas Man
05-15-2015, 11:43 PM
Oh I know plenty of guys that can report the same Chain. I'm just reporting my knowledge and homework.

glacieredlightning
05-22-2015, 08:16 AM
Putting this on hold till the winter .... I need to find something new and different to do to ... or a new bike ... or a new paint scheme ........ something new outside... I was down in RO last night and saw another 2015 RGS, same color, same turn signal mods (front and back), same seat, same vent screens .... everything on the outside was just like my bike ... he put in the speakers last weekend ...... :(:(

Kosher
05-22-2015, 09:01 AM
Putting this on hold till the winter .... I need to find something new and different to do to ... or a new bike ... or a new paint scheme ........ something new outside... I was down in RO last night and saw another 2015 RGS, same color, same turn signal mods (front and back), same seat, same vent screens .... everything on the outside was just like my bike ... he put in the speakers last weekend ...... :(:(

Eesh. Royal Oak? I try to avoid it on a bike, too many DB's and RO LEOs are assholes.

Gas Man
05-22-2015, 10:43 AM
Putting this on hold till the winter .... I need to find something new and different to do to ... or a new bike ... or a new paint scheme ........ something new outside... I was down in RO last night and saw another 2015 RGS, same color, same turn signal mods (front and back), same seat, same vent screens .... everything on the outside was just like my bike ... he put in the speakers last weekend ...... :(:(

Yeah that will happen when you're doing the basics. It's sometimes not till you get really into the bike mods when you have a long list of them do they start to seperate. Just keep plucking away at it...



Eesh. Royal Oak? I try to avoid it on a bike, too many DB's and RO LEOs are assholes.

So true... sad and true.

glacieredlightning
05-28-2015, 09:21 AM
The crowd this year has been a lot more sensible and mellowed down compared to the previous years. Still have a lot of youngsters but they seem to be hanging out with the seasoned folks :):)

Not a whole lot of LEO's on Main st. other than the hourly drive up and down the street ... well except for the parking attendant on his lil segway thing busy writing tickets ...

Gas Man
05-28-2015, 11:47 AM
The parking tickets is the main problem IMO