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View Full Version : Now I'm just getting pissed......



telecast
08-06-2009, 07:35 AM
It's been 9 days since we could get in our driveway. They still haven't poured the driveway approach or sidewalk. After they do, it'll be another 6 days before we can drive on it.

This is bullshit. I do construction management for a living, and I don't mean houses. I do roads, bridges, water plants, sewer treatment, etc. Infrastructure. I know exactly what it takes to put this stuff in. The project is poorly coordinated. To add to this, the city no longer has a public works director, the whole thing is being handled by the building official, who knows almost nothing about this kind of work.

My company used to be the city's engineers until the new City Administrator came on board. They have a tendency to bring in engineer's they've worked with in the past. And, I used to be the city's Director of Public Works. Because of those two issue I have to tread lightly. Anything I say or do has to be in my capacity as a citizen.

It's frustrating.

Gas Man
08-06-2009, 07:49 AM
Not too mention its late in the season for driveways. It takes concrete a long time to fully cure. The salt this winter will be very hard on it.

telecast
08-06-2009, 08:03 AM
Nah. 70% strength in 7 days, full strength in 28. They should be using a 4000 PSI mix. Salt really doesn't affect concrete as long as it's properly closed. I can show you concrete roads that were put in in the 60's that show no visible signs of salt damage.

The problem comes when the finisher doesn't fully close it and leaves small voids. Salts melts the ice and snow, water gets in the voids, the temp goes down and freezes the water, which expands and pops the finish.

A lot of times you'll see concrete with a lot of the finish popped. In that case it's usually because they worked it too late and it was getting hot so the putty never fully bonds.

Gas Man
08-06-2009, 07:54 PM
If you say so... I have seen otherwise.... on proper weathering of the concrete.

Bob
08-06-2009, 08:46 PM
Nah. 70% strength in 7 days, full strength in 28. They should be using a 4000 PSI mix. Salt really doesn't affect concrete as long as it's properly closed. I can show you concrete roads that were put in in the 60's that show no visible signs of salt damage.

The problem comes when the finisher doesn't fully close it and leaves small voids. Salts melts the ice and snow, water gets in the voids, the temp goes down and freezes the water, which expands and pops the finish.

A lot of times you'll see concrete with a lot of the finish popped. In that case it's usually because they worked it too late and it was getting hot so the putty never fully bonds.

You are correct. I'm registered with the state as a Level 1 concrete tester. We allow traffic after 7 days on our projects given the right mix. If the finishers leave voids OR work it too much so the large stone is close to the top the stones will pop and create voids. Once there are voids and water is allowed to enter and expand in the winter it's all over. Water freezing and thawing does more damage than salt will.

I was actually just having this conversation with a local concrete company today. With the limestone mix they use today it's a lesser quality of concrete than in the old days. Roads today will never last as long as old roads. Also Michigan allows heavier loads/traffic than most states.

telecast
08-07-2009, 08:39 AM
Not only do they allow heavier traffic, but the fines are much lighter.

There are so many issue with concrete. Was it closed properly, what was the temp? If the air temp was too hot, did they use icewater to cool it? What was the slump? Did the contractor add water on site? What was the % of entrained air? Was it protected? Did they use a curing compound? And foremost, was the mix appropriate for the application?

People who pour concrete improperly that later fails like to blame it on salt to relieve them of their responsibility. Those who don't know buy into it and the contractor walks away scott free, when he should've replaced it.

The biggest problem with residential concrete is that it is never tested. Most building officials don't have clue. Foundation mixes are turned into soup so it flows and the contractor doesn't have to work as hard. Same with floors, garages, driveways.

We pour year-round. As long as the subgrade is protected from freezing and winter measures are in place, it's not an issue.

telecast
08-07-2009, 08:41 AM
Oh yeah, they're paving my street today, and my side still doesn't have driveways. How's that for half assed backwards? They tell me it'll be Monday, so another 6 days after that before I can get in.

Bob
08-07-2009, 07:24 PM
Not only do they allow heavier traffic, but the fines are much lighter.

There are so many issue with concrete. Was it closed properly, what was the temp? If the air temp was too hot, did they use icewater to cool it? What was the slump? Did the contractor add water on site? What was the % of entrained air? Was it protected? Did they use a curing compound? And foremost, was the mix appropriate for the application?

People who pour concrete improperly that later fails like to blame it on salt to relieve them of their responsibility. Those who don't know buy into it and the contractor walks away scott free, when he should've replaced it.

The biggest problem with residential concrete is that it is never tested. Most building officials don't have clue. Foundation mixes are turned into soup so it flows and the contractor doesn't have to work as hard. Same with floors, garages, driveways.

We pour year-round. As long as the subgrade is protected from freezing and winter measures are in place, it's not an issue.

Do you work for a concrete company? We might need some work done next year.

telecast
08-08-2009, 09:05 AM
No, I work for an engineering firm.

telecast
08-13-2009, 09:28 AM
Well, they got the walk and drive in Tuesday. By Sunday I can get back on it. I could probably take the bike across it now, I just don't have the time.

Bob
08-13-2009, 08:55 PM
I hear that!