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View Full Version : Riding (2 wheels or 4) in Michigan is really a matter of risk assessment



Kosher
03-11-2015, 01:12 PM
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/03/11/bridge-concrete/70139088/

Ok, so - another wonderful example of our fabulous Michigan roads. Personally I'm angry about all of this.

I'm not one of the people that believes that any form of taxation is evil. I do believe that we're getting the infrastructure we're (not) paying for. Currently Michigan is *dead last* in per capita road funding (http://michiganradio.org/post/michigan-ranks-last-all-50-states-capita-road-spending).

On the other hand, I do not like the ballot proposal (in part) because I believe its a big cop-out for our legistators to dump this on voters instead of doing their jobs. (I blame term limits, but thats another rant altogether).

I dont mind paying more, but I dont like the way its structured. I think Snyder had a workable solution but of course politics happen and we're not getting anything like what he proposed.

Anyway, it just pisses me off. I dont know how I'm going to vote in May, but our choice seems to be 1) improve the roads at the cost of having the nation's highest sales tax, or 2) pay higher auto repair bills and risk our lives because if this doesn't pass we're fucked.

leebo
03-11-2015, 04:05 PM
Does it say all the money goes to the roads?

Dagnabit
03-11-2015, 04:26 PM
No, not all the money goes to the roads from the sales tax increase. Part of the language for the bill increases the tax per gallon of gas sold as well. Its way too complicated how they worded everything. Myself, I believe this bill was designed to fail so the folks in Lansing can point fingers at one another. I would rather pay more at the pump then a flat sales tax increase, going up to 8% is just crazy. I have so many damn taxes and fees added on to everything now its nuts. Im voting no.

Kosher
03-11-2015, 05:17 PM
No, not all the money goes to the roads from the sales tax increase. Part of the language for the bill increases the tax per gallon of gas sold as well. Its way too complicated how they worded everything. Myself, I believe this bill was designed to fail so the folks in Lansing can point fingers at one another. I would rather pay more at the pump then a flat sales tax increase, going up to 8% is just crazy. I have so many damn taxes and fees added on to everything now its nuts. Im voting no.

Right, well its 7% but still. And yes I get that part of the money pays for other stuff, that was the price to get the dingalings to vote on it so the governor could have something to sign, but the whole thing makes me angry.

leebo
03-11-2015, 05:37 PM
I'm probably no also then.I would vote yes for a road only tax.And as keith said that's an easy solution to just dump it on us.

Gas Man
03-12-2015, 12:29 AM
The problem is that they keep stealing the road taxed money and using it on other shit. That is the true problem. We don't need to pay more tax, we need to take the money that is intended to go to the roads and get it there. Break the coruption.

leebo
03-12-2015, 12:31 AM
The problem is that they keep stealing the road taxed money and using it on other shit. That is the true problem. We don't need to pay more tax, we need to take the money that is intended to go to the roads and get it there. Break the coruption.Amen to that brother!

Kosher
03-12-2015, 07:32 AM
The problem is that they keep stealing the road taxed money and using it on other shit. That is the true problem. We don't need to pay more tax, we need to take the money that is intended to go to the roads and get it there. Break the coruption.

There is a revived proposal to fund the roads without a tax increase, the problem is that it takes money from education and local municipalities. That money would need to be replaced because education and local municipalities have taken huge hits already.

The bottom line is that we've been *underfunding* roads for years. This stuff costs money, and it needs to come from somewhere, there is no magic.

Gas Man
03-12-2015, 09:12 AM
I think it's a matter of taking money back what was suppose to be for the roads anyway.

Kosher
03-12-2015, 09:25 AM
I think it's a matter of taking money back what was suppose to be for the roads anyway.

Sure, but what you take away from needs to be replaced. Bottom line is everyone needs to pay more. Either pay it in increased gas tax or in wheel alignments and blown tires.

owl
03-12-2015, 09:34 AM
A tax to create good roads in Michigan is something I could live with, IF the money is spent on proper roads. In the manor of government projects we build our roads to the bare minimum specs that cover 49+ otherstates. Michigan should design their own roads, hire contractors that will behere when there are issues and tell the public “we’re fixin the road so findanother way”. Yes the cost will be somewhat more than we waste on roads today,Yes roads will be closed for longer periods and after a few years it would be nice to travel from Detroit’s beautiful Down River area to The Bridge without those fucking orange cones. Build the roads correctly and be done for 20+years.

Kosher
03-12-2015, 09:45 AM
A tax to create good roads in Michigan is something I could live with, IF the money is spent on proper roads. In the manor of government projects we build our roads to the bare minimum specs that cover 49+ otherstates. Michigan should design their own roads, hire contractors that will behere when there are issues and tell the public “we’re fixin the road so findanother way”. Yes the cost will be somewhat more than we waste on roads today,Yes roads will be closed for longer periods and after a few years it would be nice to travel from Detroit’s beautiful Down River area to The Bridge without those fucking orange cones. Build the roads correctly and be done for 20+years.

Amen bro. There are so many roads that were just fixed a couple years ago, and are again, a mess.

Example: Sections of Telegraph where just completed two years ago, and are very bad again. Between Long Lake and Orchard Lake in both directions, terrible again. Yes, I get brutal cold weather, etc, but I refuse to believe these replacements wouldnt last more than two years! Telegraph was down to the dirt, these werent repairs.

Our fees for trucks are well below that of other states, and we also allow double the max truck weight than any other state.

Chain
03-12-2015, 10:00 AM
I pretty much feel the same way I think most do... If it's a tax that WILL go to the project and the project done correctly!?!? I'm all for it!!! Problem is I KNOW IT WONT!!!!!!!!! So, yes, were fuked!!! I can't stand the roads in MI, as most already know, you travel out of state and the roads are magical... it's a shame. And a sham!!!!!

leebo
03-12-2015, 10:19 AM
Same here I am willing to ante up for the roads but not for some lifetime politicians trip to the Czech republic.

RedneckMedic
03-12-2015, 07:05 PM
It can't be just a cold issue. As shitty as ohio is the roads are ten times better and they get just as cold. I honestly wouldn't argue about a toll road to cover the cost. That way I know what I'm paying for.

Kosher
03-12-2015, 07:12 PM
It can't be just a cold issue. As shitty as ohio is the roads are ten times better and they get just as cold. I honestly wouldn't argue about a toll road to cover the cost. That way I know what I'm paying for.

Sure, they spend more on roads than we do.

Toll roads pay for toll roads. Not for local roads. Again, we can spend it on repairs or road maint. I say road maint, but we arent spending enough, period. Last in the nation on a per capita basis.

owl
03-12-2015, 08:19 PM
Are Toll roads the answer? We could have toll roads like Dallas Texas. Their nice roads without toll booths, poor signage, locals pay $40 to $50 for a month of casual use with the net profit going to Spain (the country).

sprink
03-12-2015, 08:40 PM
A tax to create good roads in Michigan is something I could live with, IF the money is spent on proper roads. In the manor of government projects we build our roads to the bare minimum specs that cover 49+ otherstates. Michigan should design their own roads, hire contractors that will behere when there are issues and tell the public “we’re fixin the road so findanother way”. Yes the cost will be somewhat more than we waste on roads today,Yes roads will be closed for longer periods and after a few years it would be nice to travel from Detroit’s beautiful Down River area to The Bridge without those fucking orange cones. Build the roads correctly and be done for 20+years.


Amen bro. There are so many roads that were just fixed a couple years ago, and are again, a mess.

Example: Sections of Telegraph where just completed two years ago, and are very bad again. Between Long Lake and Orchard Lake in both directions, terrible again. Yes, I get brutal cold weather, etc, but I refuse to believe these replacements wouldnt last more than two years! Telegraph was down to the dirt, these werent repairs.

Our fees for trucks are well below that of other states, and we also allow double the max truck weight than any other state.

Theses are the main problem with Michigan roads. We allow shitty roads to be built and reward contractors for finishing ahead of schedule instead of rewarding them for a good product.

When they replaced I-75 from 375 to 94 they used some fancy continuous pour concrete much thicker than "normal" for MI. I believe it was a German design. It held up a long time, but has gone the way of other roads. I believe our salt use is the highest in the country and that contributes a lot to the roads failure.

Ohio used to have nice roads, but they are pretty bad now. The economy (or politics) has taken it's toll. Of course the turnpike is well maintained though with it's toll.

RedneckMedic
03-13-2015, 03:25 PM
At least toll roads increase jobs for building maintaining roads. Patrols and toll operators.

The roads up north are rough in some spots but not nearly as bad. Easier to repair due to less traffic and not crippling an area by closing a road. Also wayyyyy less salt use due to the mixture. Even with the same shotty construction techniques the roads hold up better.

Moesride
03-14-2015, 08:00 PM
I'm all for a road Tax. We need funds allocated for this and specifically for this. As previously stated our MDOT mix designs are inferior material used to get the most footage we can as opposed to a better designed material focusing on a shorter road distance. Only makes sense when your trying to fix roads with not enough money. You stretch the dollar out as far as you possibly can to repair the most road you can with as little as you have. Bottom line is we need more tax money for our roads! We need a better mix design and people help accountable for these infrastructures .

leebo
03-15-2015, 04:23 PM
There's a few articles in today's (Sunday)free press on prop 1.

Gas Man
03-15-2015, 08:44 PM
Free press of what?

leebo
03-15-2015, 09:06 PM
Free press of what?DEEEEtroit !

Gas Man
03-16-2015, 07:57 AM
What is that all mean? :D



I'm teasing here Lee....

Dagnabit
03-18-2015, 08:23 AM
So after reading everything...I'm still voting no. A straight fuel tax increase is the only proposal I'd go for. The one thing I keep hearing, and I think will get rolled out in the next ten years is a straight tax on miles driven. Mandatory GPS tracking basically, no getting around paying by buying a hybrid.

detdrbuzzard
03-19-2015, 05:59 AM
I'm voting no also, I don't think they say how much of that penny will go to fixing the roads, what if 90% of that penny is used for other things. last time most roads were going to be rebuilt the talk in lansing was how they could repave more roads if they pretty much tinned the mix to make it go farther so now lots of roads that were repaved / rebuilt are falling apart. about seven years ago they repaved my street and three days later it was falling apart, city said it would be three years before it would be repaved again. it was such a bad job that they had no choice but to repave the street the following spring