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Mudpuppy
09-03-2014, 10:32 AM
Thoughts?

http://www.wxyz.com/news/43-year-old-killed-by-69-year-old-in-road-rage-incident-in-genoa-township

The gun control freaks are calling to disarm once again. SEE THIS IS WHY PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE GUNS!

They do not say whether or not he was a legal gun owner. They do mention it was not released by police if the gun was registered. And $1,000 (of gasman's money) says we will never know - especially if it is an illegal gun.

So my reply to the gun control idiots is - well 85,000,000 guns or more are owned in the US. This incident represents a fraction of a percent of gun owners - like 0.0000008%. So throw the baby out with the bath water? Why stop at guns. I hear there are 0.01% of butter knives used like a prison shank to kill people - get rid of butter and butter knives. Cars and trucks kill - gone.

But ultimately my message is this - I was just telling someone the other day - ROAD RAGE is just NOT worth it. Never know who you are dealing with. Turn the other cheek. Live to ride another day.

Gas Man
09-03-2014, 10:55 AM
If they guy feels threatened and lord knows he could after a severe road rage, then he will be found justified. UNLESS they say he should have drove off. Who knows....

Mudpuppy
09-03-2014, 11:47 AM
What are your gun control thoughts?

Mine are it was lack of gun control and 1 bad apple doesn't mean burn down the orchard

Chain
09-03-2014, 12:09 PM
Hmm...

Love how the reporter says "when he was GUNNED down by the pickup truck driver"...

Then the dumb ass witness, saying "people screaming at each other, a gunshot, then a women screaming bloody MARY".... what?!?! She needs a drink at this time!? Can't it wait!?

We'll see, or NOT, how this plays out... depends on how the media wants to over dramatize it, and if it fits there criteria. If it was a lawful self defense case with a legally carried firearm (in the eyes of the law), we will hear very little after this, if its NOT, we'll hear a shit load too much...

Gas Man
09-03-2014, 02:56 PM
What are your gun control thoughts?

Mine are it was lack of gun control and 1 bad apple doesn't mean burn down the orchard

I agree. I have the second admendment to guide us.

Ultra AL
09-03-2014, 08:32 PM
Gun Control = Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, & Squeeze.

Bagger Dave
09-04-2014, 06:34 AM
Gun Control = Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, & Squeeze.
This!^^

Mudpuppy
09-04-2014, 11:41 AM
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa_ijbjtCReYU2ycfWm2RYRAngvS1zs hiIecHrCgOrGpyI3AxU

Chain
09-08-2014, 11:46 AM
Good write up about this very subject.

From an instructor over at MDFI, ( http://trainmdfi.com/ )the wife and I have taken a few classes from this instructor and they are top guys!!! This was written about 2 years ago also...


Mind: Road Rage Response
October 22, 2012 at 5:52pm (https://www.facebook.com/notes/mdfi/mind-road-rage-response/10151301590640815)
From the wilds of the interwebs:
Whole-person concept: Mind

We have all witnessed this scenario: You are driving from point A to B, obeying traffic laws and doing your due diligence as a responsible driver when another driver behind you doesn’t think that you are moving fast enough in the 25mph residential area. You complete a stop at a four way near a school when the driver behind you who has been following impatiently way-too-close lays on the horn and shouts, “It’s a stop-sign not a parking lot!!!”

Aggravated at the flat-out rude display toward you and the disregard for the safety of others, you slam your car in park and exit the vehicle visually angry with aggressive, fast movement toward the offending drivers’ car shouting obscenities.

Pause, Rewind and stand-fast.

This scenario is fresh from a recently read internet post where the author details their ‘justified’ actions toward the rude driver behind them seeking support for their actions toward the other citizen.

In order to have an appropriate view of this scenario, we need to break it down into basic use of force levels and appropriate responses.

The driver of the vehicle behind us is clearly demonstrating unsafe driving practices prior to the event coming to a zenith. Prior to the altercation, we as responsible people have quite a few choices to handle this type of driver appropriately- and legally. The easiest method is to signal and pull over, letting them pass. Get the license plate number and call local law enforcement if you feel they are a danger to others. If they are merely a pest- allow them to go on about their merry way.

For the actual moment where the driver goes from annoying to disrespectful, we need to remember that a person yelling obscenities or sending gestures our way is in no way assaultive unless:

- They verbally state that they are going to hurt you
- They make physical action to suggest that an assault is imminent
- They assault you

In our classes, we talk about the idiot in the car as the “Big Talker.” They are the one looking to goat you into doing something stupid by pushing your buttons. This person exists at what is known in the law enforcement world as an “Active Resistant” subject. In the law enforcement world, this person can be lawfully engaged with physical less-lethal techniques if verbal control does not work. For those of us in the civilian sector- the Big Talker is just that- a talker. Based on appropriate use of force, the options that we have for this person in a bar-type scenario is to warn the individual and gain distance. (the warning and distance allow us to see if they are going to stand their ground and talk, or close distance on us as we open our reactionary gap making their actions potentially assaultive (let the Spicyface games begin)

In a vehicle scenario, a big-talking idiot bottled up in a car is just an idiot in a car. They are not a threat at this given time and can be countered by…you guessed it- driving away. (For those with the “what if?” faces on regarding “what if they follow me wherever I go??”…that is for another day and another lesson.)

For us as the responsible citizen, the whole-person, to exit the vehicle in the manner described above and encroach aggressively on the Active Resistant driver, we in turn become the aggressor. DO NOT get me wrong- we all want to, he/she deserves it. Regardless we cannot as responsible (possibly responsibly armed) citizens. At a minimum, if a physical altercation comes from our actions of rushing their vehicle, we will be charged with mutual combat (a.k.a. fighting) and both will be charged. If the person in the vehicle can articulate that you charged them like a madman/woman and they engaged you with less-lethals like pepper spray and/or physical techniques after you assaulted them for honking at you- you are in a world of hurt.

One of the biggest challenges for a responsible person in the wilds of society is to keep your emotions in check. By doing so, we can properly assess the situation and respond accordingly according to constitutionaly sound use of force allowances. In short, give the idiot the opportunity to make the wrong move and don’t make their actions justified.

Stay safe and keep training.
-Trek

ChefC14
09-10-2014, 08:08 AM
Do you think the writer could have done a more half assed job of writing this story? First they said the 43 year old got out and approached the 69 year old then they said he was in his truck with his wife. They give no info to base a decision on at all. They just wrote it to make people shake their head and move their agenda along. The real criminal in this is the damned gun, right? Things are dangerous, ban all things!

Mudpuppy
09-15-2014, 03:09 PM
good write up about this very subject.

From an instructor over at mdfi, ( http://trainmdfi.com/ )the wife and i have taken a few classes from this instructor and they are top guys!!! This was written about 2 years ago also...


mind: Road rage response
october 22, 2012 at 5:52pm (https://www.facebook.com/notes/mdfi/mind-road-rage-response/10151301590640815)
from the wilds of the interwebs:
Whole-person concept: Mind

we have all witnessed this scenario: You are driving from point a to b, obeying traffic laws and doing your due diligence as a responsible driver when another driver behind you doesn’t think that you are moving fast enough in the 25mph residential area. You complete a stop at a four way near a school when the driver behind you who has been following impatiently way-too-close lays on the horn and shouts, “it’s a stop-sign not a parking lot!!!”

aggravated at the flat-out rude display toward you and the disregard for the safety of others, you slam your car in park and exit the vehicle visually angry with aggressive, fast movement toward the offending drivers’ car shouting obscenities.

Pause, rewind and stand-fast.

This scenario is fresh from a recently read internet post where the author details their ‘justified’ actions toward the rude driver behind them seeking support for their actions toward the other citizen.

In order to have an appropriate view of this scenario, we need to break it down into basic use of force levels and appropriate responses.

The driver of the vehicle behind us is clearly demonstrating unsafe driving practices prior to the event coming to a zenith. Prior to the altercation, we as responsible people have quite a few choices to handle this type of driver appropriately- and legally. The easiest method is to signal and pull over, letting them pass. Get the license plate number and call local law enforcement if you feel they are a danger to others. If they are merely a pest- allow them to go on about their merry way.

For the actual moment where the driver goes from annoying to disrespectful, we need to remember that a person yelling obscenities or sending gestures our way is in no way assaultive unless:

- they verbally state that they are going to hurt you
- they make physical action to suggest that an assault is imminent
- they assault you

in our classes, we talk about the idiot in the car as the “big talker.” they are the one looking to goat you into doing something stupid by pushing your buttons. This person exists at what is known in the law enforcement world as an “active resistant” subject. In the law enforcement world, this person can be lawfully engaged with physical less-lethal techniques if verbal control does not work. For those of us in the civilian sector- the big talker is just that- a talker. Based on appropriate use of force, the options that we have for this person in a bar-type scenario is to warn the individual and gain distance. (the warning and distance allow us to see if they are going to stand their ground and talk, or close distance on us as we open our reactionary gap making their actions potentially assaultive (let the spicyface games begin)

in a vehicle scenario, a big-talking idiot bottled up in a car is just an idiot in a car. They are not a threat at this given time and can be countered by…you guessed it- driving away. (for those with the “what if?” faces on regarding “what if they follow me wherever i go??”…that is for another day and another lesson.)

for us as the responsible citizen, the whole-person, to exit the vehicle in the manner described above and encroach aggressively on the active resistant driver, we in turn become the aggressor. Do not get me wrong- we all want to, he/she deserves it. Regardless we cannot as responsible (possibly responsibly armed) citizens. At a minimum, if a physical altercation comes from our actions of rushing their vehicle, we will be charged with mutual combat (a.k.a. Fighting) and both will be charged. If the person in the vehicle can articulate that you charged them like a madman/woman and they engaged you with less-lethals like pepper spray and/or physical techniques after you assaulted them for honking at you- you are in a world of hurt.

One of the biggest challenges for a responsible person in the wilds of society is to keep your emotions in check. By doing so, we can properly assess the situation and respond accordingly according to constitutionaly sound use of force allowances. In short, give the idiot the opportunity to make the wrong move and don’t make their actions justified.

Stay safe and keep training.
-trek

this!