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View Full Version : Keith's (Kosher's) not so long ride



Kosher
05-20-2014, 10:17 PM
Well, I headed out today, destination Little Chute Wisconsin for my 107 build at Fuel Moto.

Started out cold, hit rain in Ann Arbor, then a little more in Jackson, dry after that.

Stopped by to visit a close friend in Palatine, IL, it was HOT in Chicago!

It was 500 miles from my house to the hotel in Little Chute.

I forgot to snap a pic in Palatine, but...

First rest stop near Benton Harbor, MI, sun is coming out and starting to get very pleasant.

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-gxh5Kdj/0/O/bikeniles.jpg

Parked for the night at the Country Inn & Suites

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-Pn6BhKv/0/X3/bikelittlechute-X3.jpg

More pics tomorrow!

leebo
05-20-2014, 10:38 PM
Nice pix keith!

Bagger Dave
05-20-2014, 10:39 PM
Cool Keith!! Your going to have a fun ride on the way home! :rockwoot: looking forward to hearing about your build....and how you like it compared to before....ride safe!
If I wasn't working 12 days straight...I would have rode over there with ya

Moesride
05-20-2014, 10:39 PM
Nice Keith! Enjoy your ride and new build. You headed there alone? Thought you had a buddy doing the same to his bike.

Kosher
05-20-2014, 10:43 PM
Nice Keith! Enjoy your ride and new build. You headed there alone? Thought you had a buddy doing the same to his bike.

Thanks guys - Jeff is coming tomorrow evening, his build starts on Thursday.

Gas Man
05-20-2014, 10:47 PM
Awesome Kosher... do we all have to put the "not so long" in our rides because of owl?

Looking forward to see the build. Are you sticking by their shop during the build?

RedneckMedic
05-20-2014, 10:57 PM
Can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. an awesome excuse for a trip :kawi:

Kosher
05-20-2014, 11:04 PM
Awesome Kosher... do we all have to put the "not so long" in our rides because of owl?

Looking forward to see the build. Are you sticking by their shop during the build?

They dont let you hang around in the shop while they are doing the build - insurance. Plus I can understand, if they let me in there while they are working I'm sure they'd literally shoot me in the first 30 minutes.

Its crunch time at work, I have to get a bunch of crap done tomorrow anyway. I booked this trip months ago, but from a work perspective the timing is really not ideal, I'm sure my manager is not pleased.

Bagger Dave
05-20-2014, 11:06 PM
They dont let you hang around in the shop while they are doing the build - insurance. Plus I can understand, if they let me in there while they are working I'm sure they'd literally shoot me in the first 30 minutes.

Its crunch time at work, I have to get a bunch of crap done tomorrow anyway.

Yep...when I get out of work tomorry...I'm sure we will be seeing your bike on the Fuel Moto FB page during the build....

owl
05-20-2014, 11:27 PM
Be careful out there Keith. Enjoy your ride home. And please keep us informed.

Gas Man, everyone can have their own long ride. If a ride is long to whomever then that could be whoever’s long ride.
Jim

Chain
05-21-2014, 08:53 AM
Thanks for sharing! And be safe!!!

bombdog
05-21-2014, 09:42 AM
Cool man, Good luck with the build and safe journeys to ya.

" May Winds will blow all my troubles away "

Mudpuppy
05-21-2014, 10:59 AM
Nice work Keith

Kosher
05-21-2014, 11:33 AM
Arrived at Fuel Moto!

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-9KQdpGx/0/X3/FMArrival-X3.jpg

Chris asked if I get to watch while they work. NO! Understandable because I'm sure that after 30 minutes they'd want to beat me to death with a piston.

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-JXLKrtQ/0/X3/FMDoor-X3.jpg

Jamie's wife let me in the shop before they opened so I could snap a few pics. In the pic below, the dyno room is on the left. Past the lifts on the right is another large room, but I didnt want to make too much of a pest of myself.

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-zwWJnBR/0/X3/FMShop-X3.jpg

The Dyno room!
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-KSR6nwj/0/X3/FMDyno-X3.jpg

Also - they use Mobil1. I smell an endorsement here! :)

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-5vBq32r/0/X3/FMOil-X3.jpg

bombdog
05-21-2014, 11:58 AM
Kieth take your bike and run I dont see any AMSOIL!!!!!!!!!:wtf::lmao::boobies:

Mudpuppy
05-21-2014, 12:11 PM
Kieth take your bike and run I dont see any AMSOIL!!!!!!!!!:wtf::lmao::boobies:

EGGZACKLY!

AOD - AMSOIL OR DIE!

And what is the dyno for? Riding lawn mowers? Why dyno an HD? Get it from 25 to 26hp? And then all the adjustments rattle loose and it goes to 23hp?

Kosher
05-21-2014, 12:32 PM
EGGZACKLY!

AOD - AMSOIL OR DIE!

And what is the dyno for? Riding lawn mowers? Why dyno an HD? Get it from 25 to 26hp? And then all the adjustments rattle loose and it goes to 23hp?

I expect to go from about 93TQ now to about 112-118TQ. But it isnt a sport bike, so I have no intention of donning a space suit and dragging my knees

Mudpuppy
05-21-2014, 12:52 PM
you'd look damn good in a space suit though keith

bombdog
05-21-2014, 12:55 PM
Yep and a full face helmet to cover that mug yep you look much better................:fu2:

Kosher
05-21-2014, 02:22 PM
All torn down! Crazy to see my bike like this!

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-BRXPH3w/0/X3/torndown-X3.jpg

leebo
05-21-2014, 03:06 PM
Scary.how long is it gonna take them?

Kosher
05-21-2014, 03:08 PM
Scary.how long is it gonna take them?

Here's the amazing thing: It will be done, broken in, and tuned by 10AM tomorrow.

Kosher
05-21-2014, 03:35 PM
Base run before the modifications was: 76HP, 94TQ

Thruxtonbill
05-21-2014, 05:38 PM
I expect to go from about 93TQ now to about 112-118TQ. But it isnt a sport bike, so I have no intention of donning a space suit and dragging my knees
You could of got that from a Triumph out of the box.:lmao: And it's Power Ranger not space suit.

Seriously though you must be geeked, like a kid at Christmas.

Kosher
05-21-2014, 05:40 PM
You could of got that from a Triumph out of the box.:lmao: And it's Power Ranger not space suit.

Seriously though you must be geeked, like a kid at Christmas.

But then I'd be riding a Triumph. :)

Its going to be fun for sure. Its a big touring bike, I just want some more giddyup and better parts for reliability.

Mudpuppy
05-21-2014, 06:17 PM
My Toro lawnmower pulls at least that

Mudpuppy
05-21-2014, 06:18 PM
and I bought the toro because I have a small penis

leebo
05-21-2014, 06:36 PM
76 hp before, what you lookin for after, and thats amazin that it will be done tomorrow.whats the cost of the operation.

Kosher
05-21-2014, 06:45 PM
76 hp before, what you lookin for after, and thats amazin that it will be done tomorrow.whats the cost of the operation.

I'm less concerned about HP than TQ. I'm hoping to get 115TQ. HP will probably be above 100.

Cost is about $3400, but I cancelled my ESP, because this work basically invalidates it, that gave me about $1300 back. Would have been about $1K less in total, but I opted for Fuel Moto jugs vs bored stock, and for an extra couple hundred I'm having him refresh my heads - valve seals, springs, etc. I also opted for a more expensive clutch option $230 vs $70. The $230 option reduces your clutch pull, the $70 option actually increases it a bit, so what the heck, right? Remember, I hate money!

The base kit, with bored stock jugs, cams, lifters, install and dyno tune is $2200

Kosher
05-21-2014, 07:51 PM
About an hour ago I went over to visit my bike - Jugs are on! (You can see the Fuel Moto script on the bottom)

I had a *very* interesting conversation with Jamie, he is an amazing person.

He showed me my pistons - no evidence of a pinging problem, which surprised me. I thought I heard my bike constantly pinging like a bitch. He thinks what I'm hearing is just valve train clatter, but even if true, it bugs the hell out of me! He said look - if you take your car, remove the hood with all its sound insulation, and drive it while sitting on top of the open motor, you'd hear all kinds of crazy shit! With this build, I'm having him refresh my heads, and he's putting in better valve springs, which should solve the problem.

He showed me my lifters - he said "stock lifters are junk, look flat spots!" Surprised the hell out of me, because I thought I paid for extra Fueling lifters (only 2K miles ago!) when I got them replaced under warranty. My dealer and I are going to have a conversation. Jamie uses Woods lifters in his 107 kits, so I'm glad those pieces of shit are gone.

He said my valves looked brand new.

Here's another interesting thing - crank run out - mine measured at .02!! Thats very good, there's a lot of controversy about this subject. Back in 2002 HD changed how they assemble the crank, and the spec went from .03 to .12 - very controversial! There have been articles about this in American Iron and a tsunami of conversations about this on the forums to this day.

He says that of the thousands of bikes he's done, the vast majority are below .04, and rarely, very rarely he sees one at .12

But .02 is very good, it means my oil pump will last a while, at the very least.

He will finish the tune tonight, and toss the heat shields on tomorrow morning, and off I go!

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-G3hxPmC/0/X3/WP_20140521_16_04_07_Pro-X3.jpg

leebo
05-21-2014, 07:56 PM
A 32nd to 1/8 tolerance ?

Gas Man
05-21-2014, 08:26 PM
Awesome sauce!!!

Bagger Dave
05-21-2014, 09:25 PM
Coolio Keith!! :rockwoot: looking forward to hearing it!

Kosher
05-21-2014, 09:31 PM
I'm watching my phone because Jamie said he'd call me when he's done

Kosher
05-21-2014, 09:33 PM
Another interesting thing Jamie told me is that these builds are profitable, but a drop in the bucket for him vs parts sales. Turns out these builds are really a terrific marketing tool for selling parts.

And if you think about it - he only does 1 bike/day, so it makes sense.

I've speculated that he's just a really smart guy and never studied marketing, but he told me that his college degree is..... Marketing.

I will say that his use of social media, and especially the forums he sponsors - hdforums and roadglide.org (there may be others) is just brilliant.

Bagger Dave
05-21-2014, 09:56 PM
Yeah...Jamie is a smart man....I always go on Fuel Moto's FB page and check out all the different builds that they do...and how people like them...that's where I bought all of my stuff from...pipes...stage 1 backing plate and cleaner and Commander V tuner and FM mapped it for me with life time tech support...

Klimoman
05-21-2014, 09:57 PM
and I bought the toro because I have a small penis

:lmao:

Gas Man
05-21-2014, 10:56 PM
They have almost cornered the market...

Kosher
05-21-2014, 11:48 PM
Jamie called this evening. Results:

96HP and 116TQ. Should be a happy camper, ride tomorrow morning!

leebo
05-22-2014, 12:32 AM
Woo Hoo 96 horses ! Geez that guy is fast, takes me longer to mow my lawn.

Kosher
05-22-2014, 12:34 AM
Woo Hoo 96 horses ! Geez that guy is fast, takes me longer to mow my lawn.

They've done it thousands of times. Its down to a science. One of his guys does the build during the day, at about 6pm he does the tune, I got a call at about 9pm from him.

He rolled up at about 9am, they do these mon->thurs.

Mudpuppy
05-22-2014, 01:07 AM
that is pretty amazing how quick they can get it done

owl
05-22-2014, 08:34 AM
Looks like ideal weather for the ride home, so be careful andhave fun.
Jim

Gas Man
05-22-2014, 11:32 AM
You got almost exactly what you wanted. And with duals it should sound sick!!!

You keep your stock jugs? Craigslist later?

leebo
05-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Hows it runnin?

Larry64
05-22-2014, 02:03 PM
The dyno chart is on Fuel Moto's face book page.
https://www.facebook.com/FuelMoto

Chain
05-22-2014, 03:59 PM
About an hour ago I went over to visit my bike - Jugs are on! (You can see the Fuel Moto script on the bottom)

I had a *very* interesting conversation with Jamie, he is an amazing person.

He showed me my pistons - no evidence of a pinging problem, which surprised me. I thought I heard my bike constantly pinging like a bitch. He thinks what I'm hearing is just valve train clatter, but even if true, it bugs the hell out of me! He said look - if you take your car, remove the hood with all its sound insulation, and drive it while sitting on top of the open motor, you'd hear all kinds of crazy shit! With this build, I'm having him refresh my heads, and he's putting in better valve springs, which should solve the problem.

He showed me my lifters - he said "stock lifters are junk, look flat spots!" Surprised the hell out of me, because I thought I paid for extra Fueling lifters (only 2K miles ago!) when I got them replaced under warranty. My dealer and I are going to have a conversation. Jamie uses Woods lifters in his 107 kits, so I'm glad those pieces of shit are gone.

He said my valves looked brand new.

Here's another interesting thing - crank run out - mine measured at .02!! Thats very good, there's a lot of controversy about this subject. Back in 2002 HD changed how they assemble the crank, and the spec went from .03 to .12 - very controversial! There have been articles about this in American Iron and a tsunami of conversations about this on the forums to this day.

He says that of the thousands of bikes he's done, the vast majority are below .04, and rarely, very rarely he sees one at .12

But .02 is very good, it means my oil pump will last a while, at the very least.

He will finish the tune tonight, and toss the heat shields on tomorrow morning, and off I go!

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-G3hxPmC/0/X3/WP_20140521_16_04_07_Pro-X3.jpg


Jamie called this evening. Results:

96HP and 116TQ. Should be a happy camper, ride tomorrow morning!


Pretty sure you mean .002 run out. .02 would make a mess! That's half the size of our spark plug gap...

Very nice!!!! Good numbers for no head work. Can't wait for my #'s, soon as I get the RG up and going, the SG is coming apart! Then Dyno.

Kosher
05-22-2014, 11:39 PM
Pretty sure you mean .002 run out. .02 would make a mess! That's half the size of our spark plug gap...

Very nice!!!! Good numbers for no head work. Can't wait for my #'s, soon as I get the RG up and going, the SG is coming apart! Then Dyno.

Thanks, Chain, yes, I believe you are correct, .002, my bad.

Regarding the numbers I'll quote from my post on Roadglide.org so I dont have to re-write it. I saw a lot of comments on Jamie's Facebook post on my build and numbers. Please understand I'm not referring to you here at all, but here we go:


There are a ton of "performance experts" criticizing the numbers, and its bugging me.

A lot of people saying they'd be disappointed in the numbers, that dont understand that I have true duals (or even if they did they dont understand why that matters), which limits my options and my numbers.

I'll say that I knew going in pretty much what I would get, and given the circumstances, I chose to have this build. (107, 777, no ported heads, but Jamie refreshed the parts in my existing heads (better springs, new seals)).

Many folks saying I should have had my heads ported, etc.

But with true duals, head porting doesnt yield that much additional power, and where it does, it comes on further to the right where I don't ride.

But what most people dont understand is performance is only 1/2 of the reason I got this build. Reliability is the other half.

I put a lot of miles on my bike, and now not only do I have much more power (23% more, which is fantastic), but I have more reliable parts - better pistons, jugs (better than bored stock because I got Fuel Moto jugs, not bored stock), inner cam bearing, lifters, clutch and valve springs.

I put a couple hundred on it today, and I can say the bike has guts now. It does what I want it to do when I want it done, it doesnt labor going uphill in cruise control, and the maddening, incessant valve train clatter is completely gone.

What I have now is a much more reliable, much better performing bike, thats what I paid for, thats what I got, and I'm very happy.

Gas Man
05-22-2014, 11:49 PM
Good quote there Keith!

You're top notch. You know what you wanted, YOU paid the the bill, you're happy. That's the best thing. Now can we race?

Kosher
05-22-2014, 11:50 PM
Good quote there Keith!

You're top notch. You know what you wanted, YOU paid the the bill, you're happy. That's the best thing. Now can we race?

Bring it on!!

Bagger Dave
05-22-2014, 11:52 PM
Well said Keith :dthumb: the main thing is that your happy....

When it comes time for me to do something like this...I want the same...a little more power and reliability ....
Myself...I could care less what anyone thinks....it's your bike...and you got what you wanted....don't let that shit bother ya!

when I talked to Brian at Fuel Moto a couple years ago when I bought my Dresser Duals from them...he asked why I wanted those pipes...and I told him that I liked the way the flow with the bike and sound...I didn't care about gaining 2-4 extra horse going to a 2 into 1...I wanted the True Duals....always loved the sound of them...He told me alot of people try to get every little bit of power out of their bikes...but again...to each their own...
I'm looking forward to hearing your bike and a update after you put some miles on it...how do ya like the TW-777 cams?

Kosher
05-23-2014, 12:01 AM
Ok, so - after my little rant, as I said, I put a couple hundred on it today. I love my bike again! Its a strong runner, sounds amazing, and fun to ride.

First, my bike was filthy from Tuesdays ride up, so after I got my bike back from Jamie in the morning, I washed it at the hand wash across the street - the hotel was kind enough to give me some rags that they didnt want back.

Then I headed up the road toward Sturgeon Bay. There was a lot of construction on 41, and 10 miles into my ride the construction crew was spraying water over the construction site which spilled massively into the travel lanes, so my bike was filthy again.:fu2:

So pissed.

I thought I took more pics, but I guess not <sigh>. Here's what I got -

First, I stopped at Vandervest Harley in Green Bay to get a new foot pedal pad. I asked to borrow a wrench but they slapped it on for me at no charge. Nice!

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-b2nVZMV/0/X3/WP_20140522_11_32_24_Pro-X3.jpg

Parked at Sturgeon Bay:
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-99RmpL9/0/X3/WP_20140522_13_32_56_Pro-X3.jpg

Steel bridge in Sturgeon Bay:
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-d4s5vkL/0/X3/WP_20140522_13_36_45_Pro-X3.jpg

Gas Man
05-23-2014, 12:02 AM
Bring it on!!
Let's just see how much faster this fancy new doodad is than a stock 96

Gas Man
05-23-2014, 12:03 AM
Great pics man. Submit somin for POTM.

Bagger Dave
05-23-2014, 12:04 AM
Cool pic's Keith

Kosher
05-23-2014, 12:05 AM
Great pics man. Submit somin for POTM.

There's more to come.

We're headed to Legs Inn via the UP tomorrow. Staying at Jeffs place tomorrow night. Then, my neighbor and his family are at their place in Alpena, Jeff and I will spend the night there, then head back home on Sunday.

Gas Man
05-23-2014, 12:51 AM
Awesome man... enjoy it.

Chain
05-23-2014, 09:12 AM
Dude there's always the internet mechanic... I'd not lose sleep over them JA's! As I suspect your NOT.

Every bike is different, you do the same build on 2 different bikes your NOT going to get the same #'s. (look at me being the internet mechanic, lol)

I'd be happy with them numbers from what you were looking for! Same reason I won't do much engine work on the RG. Torque Cam, and head work, that's it. Even though I may disagree with the head work... Only because I've seen the different #'s on some of our builds with and with out head work... BUT that's our experience.

Like Gas said.

Your happy with it! Fuk the rest!!!! ;)



By the way! Enjoy your ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuel MOTO is top notch shit!!!!

Kosher
05-23-2014, 09:44 AM
Thanks, Chain - I'm sure I would have gotten more if I did heads, but the cost per marginal HQ or TQ gained would have been high.

As it is from a performance only perspective this build is probably not great, but again, other factors too.

Gas Man
05-23-2014, 09:54 AM
Got balance cost vs gain... I would have made similar choice.

Chain
05-23-2014, 01:32 PM
Thanks, Chain - I'm sure I would have gotten more if I did heads, but the cost per marginal HQ or TQ gained would have been high.

As it is from a performance only perspective this build is probably not great, but again, other factors too.


Got balance cost vs gain... I would have made similar choice.


Couldn't agree more! Lived it... ;)

horrorbusiness
05-23-2014, 07:32 PM
Whats your seat of the pants dyno tell you?

owl
05-23-2014, 09:20 PM
"Whats your seat of the pants dyno tell you?"

We’re waiting

horrorbusiness
05-24-2014, 08:05 AM
"Whats your seat of the pants dyno tell you?"

We’re waiting


rumor is that he's down at the state line waiting for his welcome back to michigan rear endeing.

Kosher
05-24-2014, 08:47 AM
This bike pulls STRONG. I'm very happy. I enjoy passing now, vs dreading it. Sounds great too. And no more valve train clatter, like I said, so its really just terrific.

Kosher
05-24-2014, 08:57 AM
Ok, here we go. We came up from Green Bay through the UP, Escanaba, the bridge, and had dinner at Legs Inn.

After dinner, we did 119. Right before we left, my buddy Jeff says "you lead". OK.

20 seconds into it, I hit a fucking deer. Front fender damage only, I kept it up, so I'm fine but pissed. Fortunately a small deer and not going all that fast. Finished 119, got some cigars in Boyne City and flopped at Jeffs house.

Parked in Mackinac City. TONS of bugs on the shield, but I guess hard to see from this pic, but in reality, its much worse.

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-vTctBQm/0/X3/WP_20140523_16_50_20_Pro-X3.jpg

Parked in front of Legs Inn:
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-6XTGmvd/0/X3/WP_20140523_18_22_59_Pro-X3.jpg

Fender damage, left and right. Deer hit my left side.
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-sfk7fL5/0/X3/WP_20140523_20_10_48_Pro-X3.jpg

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-q6Wjq4P/0/X3/WP_20140523_20_10_55_Pro-X3.jpg

FUCKING DEER
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-4TSX5r5/0/X3/WP_20140523_20_10_04_Pro-X3.jpg

Sunset from Jeff's house looking over the lake. And yes, the lake is called Deer Lake.
http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Other/Email/i-9d3jqkz/0/X3/WP_20140523_21_52_22_Pro-X3.jpg

Thruxtonbill
05-24-2014, 09:00 AM
Damn Kosh, glad you're ok. Enough with the bambis boys.

RedneckMedic
05-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Man. Glad your safe man. I know how paranoid you are about you bike must be bugging the hell out of you. Hope the rest of your trip is safe.

leebo
05-24-2014, 09:58 AM
Good job keepin er upright keith.glad ur ok.

Bagger Dave
05-24-2014, 10:34 AM
Glad your ok Keith, and you kept it upright....try to enjoy the rest of your trip....

Kosher
05-24-2014, 10:56 AM
Thanks guys, I'm looking at it as an opportunity to upgrade, left fork is scratched and both cow bells bent, so I'm going to try to parlay it into ness legs and monotubes.

owl
05-24-2014, 02:29 PM
The bike can be repaired. Your not hurt and that is the best part. Ride safe

Jim

Gas Man
05-24-2014, 05:56 PM
That's a good size deer bud. Glad you were able to have minimal impact.

Moesride
05-24-2014, 11:54 PM
Damn Keith! Glad your Ok. Could have been really bad!

Chain
05-26-2014, 07:33 PM
Wow!!!! Glad your ok Kosher!!!!

Kosher
05-26-2014, 10:38 PM
Here's the sheet on the build:

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-W4VddQM/0/O/10313729_10152007979136534_4038849363530520946_n%5 B1%5D.jpg

Bagger Dave
05-26-2014, 10:58 PM
Here's the sheet on the build:

http://keithhu.smugmug.com/Motorcycle/2013-FLTRU/i-W4VddQM/0/O/10313729_10152007979136534_4038849363530520946_n%5 B1%5D.jpg

Nice numbers Keith! :rockout: