PDA

View Full Version : LakeShore HD being sued for foreclosure



Ultra AL
11-05-2013, 11:29 AM
Looks like it's just a matter of time before they are done:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20131104/CRED03/131109961/hog-tied-foreclosure-suit-hits-harley-dealership?r=5557F1944134F7Y#

Thruxtonbill
11-05-2013, 11:56 AM
"Milwaukee-based Harley's net income plunged during the recession, falling from more than $1 billion in 2006 to a loss of $55 million in 2009.
“There was a pretty severe pullback in the entire industry between 2008 and 2010, and Harley certainly wasn't excluded,” Ms. Zackfia said. “During the recession, consumers pulled back on everything,” especially big-ticket items like motorcycles, which became harder to finance.
The number of full-service dealerships and other retail locations in the U.S. has dropped to 695, down from 788 in 2007, according to the company's website.
In 2009, Harley brought in a new CEO, Keith Wandell, overhauled operations, focused on product development and looked to expand beyond its “core white male baby boomer demographic,” Ms. Zackfia said."

The last paragraph is very telling, to little to late I'm afraid. HDs reluctance to change is going to be their downfall. I know you kool aid drinkers love your bikes and I get it, I really do but with a changing demographic you must change as well.

Having said that, I've always admired HD for their marketing savvy, no one did it better. In the end though it's all about the bikes and with the dwindling number of people with disposable income, price point becomes an issue.

junkyardjon
11-05-2013, 12:45 PM
It is their fall but they'll start making liquid cooled shit bikes that are most likely over priced and then blame the consumer for not buying it

Ultra AL
11-05-2013, 12:52 PM
I think the article here is pointing to Lake Shore HD being done. Not the MoCo. HD has seen net income fall, but they seem to be rejunvenated a bit with the Mt. Rushmore project bikes being very popular, and now with the introduction of the new Street series of bikes, to hit that lower price point.

Lake Shore, on the other hand, is in trouble. They've tried to buy the market online with low prices (and I admit, I've taken advantage of their low prices myself), but they haven't maintained a margin that's sufficient to keep them solvent. If it costs you 35% to keep your doors open, you gotta make at least 35% on the product, or you will fail. You can't lose $2 on an item and make it up in volume. It don't work that way.

Gas Man
11-05-2013, 02:14 PM
So what should they have done differently Al?

Kosher
11-05-2013, 02:49 PM
I doubt the could have done anything differently. They would have had to foresee the downturn and thus had much less ambitious moderniaztion/expansion plans.

The Moco has been trying to reduce the number of dealers as you know (Detroit HD, for example) since their volume is way down. Its not healthy to have too many dealers competing for too few sales (drives prices down, creates inventory management problems)

Financially weaker dealers will be asked to close and I'm personally aware that owners get together and buy out other dealers in order to reduce competition.

In the early/mid 2000s HD pressured a lot of dealers to expand and modernize to improve their brand. Some of these dealers over-extended themselves in so doing, and there you have it with LSHD, clearly they borrowed a lot of money to create their then-new facility and when the downturn happened it made it very difficult for them to turn around, like many of the other more precarious dealerships.

The ones in this area that are staying afloat are the ones that didnt need to borrow a lot of money to upgrade their facilities. ABC, MotorCity, etc.

In this area, Detroit HD closed of course. A couple years ago Ann Arbor closed, it was owned by the same guy that owned Brighton. Now Motor City bought Brighton this year.

Port Huron closed about 3 years ago as well.

Thruxtonbill
11-05-2013, 03:13 PM
I wonder sometimes how wolverine HD keeps there doors open, that Taj Mahal is massive, of course Riely has money out the arse soo...

The fact that Triumph forced Triumph Detroit to open the west side location was surprising to me but I think Triumph gets it with price point and product innovation and it's been a good sales year for them.

Kosher
11-05-2013, 03:22 PM
I wonder sometimes how wolverine HD keeps there doors open, that Taj Mahal is massive, of course Riely has money out the arse soo...

The fact that Triumph forced Triumph Detroit to open the west side location was surprising to me but I think Triumph gets it with price point and product innovation and it's been a good sales year for them.

Have you seen Capitol HD in Lansing? HUGE! Also Vehicle City is large but they have other brands as well.

I have to think that Wolverine benefited from the PH dealership closing. (likely as did Ray C's)

junkyardjon
11-05-2013, 03:26 PM
The fact that Triumph forced Triumph Detroit to open the west side location was surprising to me but I think Triumph gets it with price point and product innovation and it's been a good sales year for them.

Explain that to me about being forced. Im just wondering

Thruxtonbill
11-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Yeah I didn't realize until I read your post Kosh that PH HD had closed, I'm sure that did help wolverine.

Thruxtonbill
11-05-2013, 03:30 PM
Explain that to me about being forced. Im just wondering
From Dave himself he told me if he didn't do it they would find someone who would.

Kosher
11-05-2013, 04:51 PM
Yeah I didn't realize until I read your post Kosh that PH HD had closed, I'm sure that did help wolverine.

I can tell you that the competition is *brutal* between the owners. They gang up on each other, try to buy out the weakest, etc.

Mudpuppy
11-05-2013, 05:06 PM
all motorcycle manufacturers are in jeopardy. we motorcyclists are aging and are a dying breed. the younger generations just aren't getting into in with the same numbers and they can't afford a fucking cup of ramen noodles let alone a $20k bike.

Ultra AL
11-05-2013, 05:44 PM
So what should they have done differently Al?


Gas, I don't know all of the specifics, so I can't say. During the recession of 08-10 we were hit hard. The first thing people do when they are faced with a downward spiral in the economy is they cut out the extras. They focus on the necessities. I can honestly say I was never so worried about the future of our shops as I was in 2009 right through early 2010. It was a frightening time. And my buildings are paid for. Had I just spent big bucks to remodel like Lake Shore did, I would have been done. I'm sure of it.

The best thing you can do is know what it costs you to open the doors each day. And if you don't charge at least that for your product, it's only a matter of time before you are done. The next thing is to trim expenses. It is far easier to trim expenses than it is to increase sales. Business is tough, it's time consuming, and for the little guy like me, it's just about eeking out a living. A'int getting rich by any stretch o the imagination.

junkyardjon
11-05-2013, 05:54 PM
If you were forced to remodel !!

Dagnabit
11-05-2013, 06:11 PM
Sad to see lakeshore go out of business, i bought stuff from them myself. While i love the HD aftermarket, the mark up is truly beyond crazy. I can see though why hd defends that for their dealers and tried to sue the internet retailers. When you look at the employees, buildings,facilities and events that the typical hd dealer has to maintain compared to a kawasaki or honda dealer its night and day. They push that premium buying experience and i dont doubt its expensive to do.

Ive also heard these same arguments on HD for the last 10 years at least - they will price themselves out of the market, that they dont get enough younger riders, motorcycling in general is dead, etc. etc. Somehow, they are still around and making money. They may shrink some, but i dont see them going away or folding anytime soon.

Tin Man
11-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Where do you guys get your news?? Harley is growing market share and owns the large bike market in the U.S.. In 08 everybody took a big hit,except for the bankers. Harleys strategy of closing small underfunded dealers is working just fine. Wolverine is a going concern, growing as a destination as well as way up on volume. I have bought two new bikes there and found Wolverine to be everything a dealer should hope to be, The only reason I recently bought a Triumph is my trick ankle can't handle the weight of a Big Twin,and I'm a bit tired of seeing Harleys everywhere I go. The recent showing of the new 500 and 750 Water Cooled twins will now bring even more pressure on the Mid Size market, Harley is on a roll.

Kosher
11-05-2013, 07:31 PM
Where do you guys get your news?? Harley is growing market share and owns the large bike market in the U.S.. In 08 everybody took a big hit,except for the bankers. Harleys strategy of closing small underfunded dealers is working just fine. Wolverine is a going concern, growing as a destination as well as way up on volume. I have bought two new bikes there and found Wolverine to be everything a dealer should hope to be, The only reason I recently bought a Triumph is my trick ankle can't handle the weight of a Big Twin,and I'm a bit tired of seeing Harleys everywhere I go. The recent showing of the new 500 and 750 Water Cooled twins will now bring even more pressure on the Mid Size market, Harley is on a roll.

Here's the news: They are making 1/3 fewer bikes they produced in 2006. Their demographic is aging. Neither of these 2 facts are refutable in any way. Click on the attachment below.

2390

Gas Man
11-05-2013, 07:56 PM
I love this thread... great info mixed in with lots of opinion.

Tin Man
11-05-2013, 09:21 PM
I guess it depends on your source and their slant. Everything I've seen says H.D., Triumph, Ducati and BMW are growing market share while the Asians are dying. Harley claims to own the young adult street bike market in the U.S. as well as the more mature rider market. And face it the mature market has the money, not the youngsters. I think in the long term Harley has more to fear from Polaris/Indian than the other Marques combined. I now ride a Triumph and I visit the dealer, I'm the only guy there, Go to a "Boutique" Harley dealer and they have 100's of people there every Saturday, rides, D.J.s and Free Food. I can't believe more Marques don't see how they are missing the boat. You really do get a "lifestyle"when you go Harley. I have a life so I can get away with riding a Triumph, But the Harley marketing is 1st rate and they are going to be hard to catch, don't matter how good your product is.

Bagger Dave
11-05-2013, 09:34 PM
I guess it depends on your source and their slant. Everything I've seen says H.D., Triumph, Ducati and BMW are growing market share while the Asians are dying. Harley claims to own the young adult street bike market in the U.S. as well as the more mature rider market. And face it the mature market has the money, not the youngsters. I think in the long term Harley has more to fear from Polaris/Indian than the other Marques combined. I now ride a Triumph and I visit the dealer, I'm the only guy there, Go to a "Boutique" Harley dealer and they have 100's of people there every Saturday, rides, D.J.s and Free Food. I can't believe more Marques don't see how they are missing the boat. You really do get a "lifestyle"when you go Harley. I have a life so I can get away with riding a Triumph, But the Harley marketing is 1st rate and they are going to be hard to catch, don't matter how good your product is.

This thread is directed at Lake Shore HD getting sued and most likely going out of business....not Harley Davidson Motor Company....but as Chris said...good info and opinions of others here...

Tin Man
11-05-2013, 10:18 PM
This thread went "off topic" after the 1st few posts, If you read the whole thread you will see where my post fits in. But I'm a new guy so I just think I will go to bed now. Good Night.

junkyardjon
11-05-2013, 10:23 PM
Yeah bummer anybody has to close shop but in this economy, it not surprising anymore.

Bagger Dave
11-05-2013, 10:38 PM
This thread went "off topic" after the 1st few posts, If you read the whole thread you will see where my post fits in. But I'm a new guy so I just think I will go to bed now. Good Night.
Yeah...no worries man....I also agreed with Chris about different opinions and good info...


Yeah bummer anybody has to close shop but in this economy, it not surprising anymore.
Truth John!

junkyardjon
11-06-2013, 09:28 AM
I know a few salvage yards that had to close after the economy tanked. Over extended and no money coming in is a bitch lol, I've been there before. Sad for sure and can really fuck with your head.

bombdog
11-06-2013, 09:40 AM
Sad to see LS go I have spent lots of money there. HD is here to stay as for the younger market if I think HD needs to market some video games. I don't see to many of the youngsters getting off their parents couch to get a job, which is needed to by toys.

Gas Man
11-06-2013, 09:42 AM
I guess it depends on your source and their slant. Everything I've seen says H.D., Triumph, Ducati and BMW are growing market share while the Asians are dying. Harley claims to own the young adult street bike market in the U.S. as well as the more mature rider market. And face it the mature market has the money, not the youngsters. I think in the long term Harley has more to fear from Polaris/Indian than the other Marques combined. I now ride a Triumph and I visit the dealer, I'm the only guy there, Go to a "Boutique" Harley dealer and they have 100's of people there every Saturday, rides, D.J.s and Free Food. I can't believe more Marques don't see how they are missing the boat. You really do get a "lifestyle"when you go Harley. I have a life so I can get away with riding a Triumph, But the Harley marketing is 1st rate and they are going to be hard to catch, don't matter how good your product is.


THis is true on the way the dealers push the lifestyle. That is trickled down from corperate I'm sure. I think it also fuels why some of these dealers do these large remodels like LakeShore.

That being said, I know I avoid my dealer when they have events... avoid it like the plague.

bombdog
11-06-2013, 09:50 AM
THis is true on the way the dealers push the lifestyle. That is trickled down from corperate I'm sure. I think it also fuels why some of these dealers do these large remodels like LakeShore.

That being said, I know I avoid my dealer when they have events... avoid it like the plague.

Not me free food is free food and free BEER Well what more needs to be said they got me. My last free beer only cost me $289.36 but I needed that part anyway............

junkyardjon
11-06-2013, 10:48 AM
I go to the free food event on my old honda. Nothing like free food

Thruxtonbill
11-06-2013, 11:05 AM
Hmmm lifestyle? I'm sorry but I don't get it. "hey you purchased a bike, here's a Tshirt and a chain wallet, a coupon for 20% off on your new tat". " Here's an event calendar complete with workshops on how to turn your nose up at folks who don't ride the same bike as you".

I know we're off topic but most of you know I'm a cynical asshole anyway. Btw, I'm not suggesting that HD will be going out of business in the next 5 years.....20 maybe.

junkyardjon
11-06-2013, 11:34 AM
Don't say that about the lifestyle !!!! How dare you lol

bombdog
11-06-2013, 11:55 AM
Hell I will ride with any bikes sport or street I even road with a Stromboli last week. We all know not everyone is cool enough to ride a Harley and thats OK.........:lmao:

junkyardjon
11-06-2013, 12:00 PM
Thats why im rocking a scooter next year

Kosher
11-06-2013, 12:25 PM
Sad to see LS go I have spent lots of money there. HD is here to stay as for the younger market if I think HD needs to market some video games. I don't see to many of the youngsters getting off their parents couch to get a job, which is needed to by toys.

http://www.kutterharleyonline.com - cheaper/faster shipping and often better prices anyway. So maybe they're the next ones to go bankrupt, LOL

bombdog
11-06-2013, 05:26 PM
http://www.kutterharleyonline.com - cheaper/faster shipping and often better prices anyway. So maybe they're the next ones to go bankrupt, LOL


You talking about this place? Yep use them online and been there.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/mybombdog/IMG_20130625_153055_144_zps39cdfae3.jpg

Gas Man
11-06-2013, 11:12 PM
Somebody get billed signed up to a few HD dealer newsletters.

RedneckMedic
11-08-2013, 05:13 AM
Ya Im the exception a young guy on a harley touring bike. But hey I plan to add a rocket to the shes next year so I guess Im going backwards.

Mudpuppy
11-08-2013, 01:00 PM
Ya Im the exception a young guy on a harley touring bike. But hey I plan to add a rocket to the shes next year so I guess Im going backwards.

Sounds like a step forward to me there Lancelot.

Thruxtonbill
11-08-2013, 02:06 PM
Sounds like a step forward to me there Lancelot.

Big surprise, I thought the same thing. What are you thinking about Lance?

Mudpuppy
11-08-2013, 02:28 PM
R1 is my guess based on our conversation in the hills o hocking

Thruxtonbill
11-08-2013, 02:53 PM
Ahhh, yeah I think he'd be a bit circus bear on a 600, let's face it he's a big guy. I was thinking something more streetfighter, Z1000, FZ1, maybe even VFR.

BTW, how in the fuck did we only ride one time in the hills? It's making me sick right now as I have my bike in pieces in the garage.
The wife and I caged down there and into WVa a couple of weeks ago, and even though I ate better and got laid, I missed you Paul.
Oh and I found the best breakfast IN THE WORLD.....THE WORLD!

RedneckMedic
11-09-2013, 07:17 PM
Mud is correct that is the plan.

junkyardjon
11-09-2013, 09:02 PM
Wish i would of known your interested in getting a sport bike, could of got you a r1 ready to ride pretty cheap with low miles.

RedneckMedic
11-10-2013, 12:56 AM
Not until next sprin or so Jon when I finish school. I'm getting a sled tomorrow though!

Mudpuppy
11-11-2013, 05:01 PM
Ahhh, yeah I think he'd be a bit circus bear on a 600, let's face it he's a big guy. I was thinking something more streetfighter, Z1000, FZ1, maybe even VFR.

BTW, how in the fuck did we only ride one time in the hills? It's making me sick right now as I have my bike in pieces in the garage.
The wife and I caged down there and into WVa a couple of weeks ago, and even though I ate better and got laid, I missed you Paul.
Oh and I found the best breakfast IN THE WORLD.....THE WORLD!

I know it's criminal - we need to get down there more next year. My bike is being put down for the winter tonight. Shame shame. Maybe we can go back to 666 Ice Cream for a Buckeye Sundae.


Not until next sprin or so Jon when I finish school. I'm getting a sled tomorrow though!

Where are you riding? Will you have a trailer? Have you been out hunting? Sorry been busy haven't had a chance but we can still get out anytime. And if it snows there are 1,000s of miles of trails there to ride as well. As long as you are cool about hanging out with rednecks then as is well in the world - THE WORLD!