PDA

View Full Version : Ccw



junkyardjon
10-23-2010, 11:54 AM
been thinking about getting my CCW lately and wondering how long it takes to get one? been looking for a nice hand gun but holy crap are they some money LOL. my brother just got his and a CCW, he spent $500 on a S&W 9mm with 3 clips and i was like wtf!!! LOL.

i also noticed all the states i go to honor MI's CCW.

Gas Man
10-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Yeah not all states honor it but those that don't, have shit CCW laws even for their citizens.

It cost $100-$250 for the class.

$500 is cheap for what he got.

9mm will always be cheaper than 40cal

I am a glock man, but also own a rouger for hand guns. Glock isn't the best but it's the most durable. That's my stand and you won't change my pov. My bro's sig was way more accurate because it had more weight that absorbed more of the kickback so it was easier to shoot which made you more accurate. But it doesn't have the glock reliability and ablility to shoot ANYTIME, ANYWHERE, ANY CONDITION.

Search Glock torture test
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

This is also the reason why most LEO or other agencies carry them. Unless they have something in their contracts or dept requirements for hammers or safeties. Oh and I'm a anit-safety guy. Neither of my carry guns have a safety. The glock has it's double trigger thing but the rouger LCP has nothing. Both do also have crimson trace lasers as well. I know from my hip where I'm shooting and don't need to traditionally aim.

Bob
10-23-2010, 03:30 PM
been thinking about getting my CCW lately and wondering how long it takes to get one? been looking for a nice hand gun but holy crap are they some money LOL. my brother just got his and a CCW, he spent $500 on a S&W 9mm with 3 clips and i was like wtf!!! LOL.

i also noticed all the states i go to honor MI's CCW.

Remember that it's actually a CPL and not CCW.

I'm a CZ guy. I love them. My CZ83 is one of the most accurate and comfortable guns i've ever shot. I'll probably always have one.

If you want something cheaper but reliable I'd look at Kel Tec. I have a KelTec PF9 and really like it. Never a fail in the hundreds of rounds I've shot through it. Their customer service is great and fast too. I actually bend an ejector on mine, long story, and they sent me a replacement, free of charge in two days. They stand behind their guns for sure. Plus they are 100% Made in the USA if that matters.

The KT does not have a safety, it just has a stronger pull. The CZ can either be carried cocked or not. If cocked you can use a safety and the trigger is super light. If not cocked then the trigger is just heavier.

Here is what I strongly recommend. Go out and try and shoot as many ad possible before you buy. If you look for suggestions on line you are going to have the S&W guys saying they are the best, the Glock guys will say theirs is the best, and so on and so on. I'll tell you CZ and Dan Wesson is the best. LMAO But you just have to shoot a bunch and see what you like the best.

p.s. Looked for sued too and you'll save a ton. I know Monroe is a long way away from you but I'll only deal with Magnum Force in Monroe, MI. Nice, honest, small place that will not rip you off.

telecast
10-23-2010, 04:22 PM
Ruger or Kel Tech, either way. CZ is good to, so is Bersa. Any of those would be a good, dependable gun. You can find one in the $300 range. Sig, S&W and Glock are all great pieces, but they're like buying a Harley, you're paying for the name.

A .380 is a short 9mm, also called a 9MM Kurz. You don't need a trendy 9mm, just a steady hand. Even a .25 or .32 is enough in the right hands. A .40 Smith is too large to carry comfortably, IMO. They do make some pocket version, but they're so light they'll beat the shit out of you at the range. That's important since you have to prove your proficiency to get the CPL.

Make the trip to Magnum Force as Bob suggested. The owner is a personal friend of mine. No better prices or better people anywhere.

Bob
10-23-2010, 09:16 PM
Ruger or Kel Tech, either way. CZ is good to, so is Bersa. Any of those would be a good, dependable gun. You can find one in the $300 range. Sig, S&W and Glock are all great pieces, but they're like buying a Harley, you're paying for the name.

A .380 is a short 9mm, also called a 9MM Kurz. You don't need a trendy 9mm, just a steady hand. Even a .25 or .32 is enough in the right hands. A .40 Smith is too large to carry comfortably, IMO. They do make some pocket version, but they're so light they'll beat the shit out of you at the range. That's important since you have to prove your proficiency to get the CPL.

Make the trip to Magnum Force as Bob suggested. The owner is a personal friend of mine. No better prices or better people anywhere.

I agree on the .380. I have a 9mm and .380 and with the right ammo a .380 will do just as much if not more than a 9mm. It's all about shot placement too. Get the gun, practice, get some professional training, and be safe no matter what gun you get.

zamochit
10-23-2010, 10:28 PM
been thinking about getting my CCW lately and wondering how long it takes to get one? been looking for a nice hand gun but holy crap are they some money LOL. my brother just got his and a CCW, he spent $500 on a S&W 9mm with 3 clips and i was like wtf!!! LOL.

i also noticed all the states i go to honor MI's CCW.

Does this have to do with all the latest Junkyardjon posts?

Gas Man
10-24-2010, 06:58 AM
Oh yeah, opinions on this topic are just as bad as MC manufacture debates.

alhall88
10-24-2010, 07:23 AM
Go to several ranges shoot there guns find something that you like then get yourself a purchase permit, and start shopping for guns. You can also look at gunbroker and auction arms for some good deals on auctions. Then start shooting a bunch and then buy some holsters and carry around the house and make sure your OK with it. Then pursue your CPL class.IMHO you should have several guns maybe a good solid 9mm range gun, and then a couple of carry pcs., in the cooler months you can get away with a larger frame gun and in the summer a smaller pc. would be more suitable. Check out the laws as well make sure these won't impact you as far as jobs,lifestyle, overall attitude. Check out this website.http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/

telecast
10-24-2010, 08:00 AM
Al's advice is good if you know what you're looking at. If you know guns, by all means look for used. I once bought a Colt Commander in .45ACP with a shot out barrel. I knew it ahead of time and knew where to get a new barrel on the cheap, but the dealer was asking the same price as if it were in perfect condition. If I didn't know how to check a bore I'd have paid a lot more money than I should've.

Here are some reviews to get you started. These are for the Ruger LCP .380, the Kel-Tec P3AT .380, and the Kel-Tec P-32. This guy has a ton of reviews, you should be able to find info on many of the guns recommended in this thread.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCP.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec_P3AT.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/JW_Kel-Tec32.htm

WILEY
10-24-2010, 08:26 AM
I am partial to the big caliber handguns myself.

.45 is hard tp beat for stopping power. I would rather shoot once to get the desired result rather than several times.

That being said, whatever you get you have to be able to carry and shoot comfortably.

There are several places around which will rent you a pistol to use on thier firing range. Make a day of it, go fire em, look at carry options to find out what suits you best.

Good luck, have fun.

junkyardjon
10-24-2010, 08:53 AM
Oh yeah, opinions on this topic are just as bad as MC manufacture debates.
i knew that before i posted LOL. i don't know anything about hand guns as in good-bad, i'm more of a rifle/shotgun guys but i can't carry one of those around LOL.

Zamochit, i'm not saying just yet :D :)

sprink
10-24-2010, 09:09 AM
been thinking about getting my CCW lately and wondering how long it takes to get one? been looking for a nice hand gun but holy crap are they some money LOL. my brother just got his and a CCW, he spent $500 on a S&W 9mm with 3 clips and i was like wtf!!! LOL.

i also noticed all the states i go to honor MI's CCW.

CCW is a felony. CPL is what you want. Even the cops mix that up :D.

Length of time depends greatly on the county you live in(Wayne being the worst). Oakland seems to run about a month.

Quality firearms are fairly expensive. Buying used will save $100. You can find glocks all day for $425. Most are not shot much. Check out "for sale" section at MichiganGunOwners.com .

Any pistol you are going to carry must be 100% reliable. Some guns run 100% out of the box, and 200 rounds will prove it. Buying used means besides saving $100 on purchase someone else bought the 200 rounds to break it in :D.

Others, like my keltec not so much. It is 100% now after running quite a few rounds through it.

Kahr makes some really nice (and expensive) pistols and they tell you to run 200 rounds through it before carrying or complaining about it. I have had a few, a couple new and a couple used and all ran 100%.

It really comes down to what fits YOUR hand comfortably and shoots well for YOU.

Don't forget the simplicity and almost complete reliability of a 38 snubbie.

PS Your friends S&W M&P is the best ;).

Mad Dog
10-24-2010, 09:16 AM
Just spent the last 2 days carrying my 5" 1911. Wasn't sure about the size at first but with the new IWB holster I just bought it was no more diffucult to carry than my .357 snubby. With the cooler weather the 1911 will be my 1st choice.

telecast
10-24-2010, 09:19 AM
Oh yeah, opinions on this topic are just as bad as MC manufacture debates.


I dunno, I think we're doing good. Four people recommended brands. Many were mentioned, but three got multiples. 2 for Ruger, 2 for CZ, and 3 for Kel-Tec. Surprising.

Five people recommended calibers, and one of them, the venerable .380, got 3 recs. Not too bad considering.

Dirty
10-24-2010, 09:25 AM
Don't forget that in Michigan you have the right to open carry a firearm without the need for a cpl, although having one gives you additional rights above the average citizen.

It's a very controversial issue, though. You should be prepared for run ins with police, being kicked out of businesses and comments and questions from everyone else...

Bob
10-24-2010, 10:38 AM
Don't forget that in Michigan you have the right to open carry a firearm without the need for a cpl, although having one gives you additional rights above the average citizen.

It's a very controversial issue, though. You should be prepared for run ins with police, being kicked out of businesses and comments and questions from everyone else...

Agreed! I have a nice open carry holster for my .380 but I've never used it in public. I hate drawing attention to myself.

Mad Dog
10-24-2010, 10:42 AM
Don't forget that in Michigan you have the right to open carry a firearm without the need for a cpl, although having one gives you additional rights above the average citizen.

It's a very controversial issue, though. You should be prepared for run ins with police, being kicked out of businesses and comments and questions from everyone else...

Plus if the bad guys see it you'll be the first one they take out. I have a Pa. carry lisc. that entitles me to open carry in 13 states but i'll keep the element of surprise on my side.

Bob
10-24-2010, 10:45 AM
Also, LOL we are dumping so much info. on poor Jon but it's all good, remember that when carrying, the gun is only part of it. I used to carry my 9mm with my standard leather belt. Now I have a 511 tactical belt that is soo much better. I did not realize how much difference a belt could make in comfort and fit. And the holster will make a huge difference too. I have some thin leather holster for the 9mm that is good because the 9mm is light. The .380 I have a custom made FIST leather holster that holds the .380 really nicely.

Mad Dog
10-24-2010, 11:11 AM
+1 on the belt.
I started with my standard everyday belt and then got a Gun Belt and what a difference. Got it from The Belt Man (http://www.thebeltman.net/). Was a little pricey but when I got it I could tell it will last for many years.

WILEY
10-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Guess i didnt mention I also am a big supporter of Ruger.

They make weapons that are built heavy and meet or exceed Mil Spec.

Other thing most folks here are refering to semi auto for a carry gun, dont discount a good wheel gun. With the right caliber its one shot one kill.

junkyardjon
10-24-2010, 01:08 PM
it's all good info, keep sharing. i knew about open carry but i'd rather not advertise it LOL. it's bad enuff they always stare at me now. it's always nice getting followed around a store. it'll look back and just tell'em straight out "I make twice as much as you so stop following me asshole". works every time LOL

RedneckMedic
10-24-2010, 05:46 PM
this thread came at a great time been thinking about taking the class and guy I work with is selling his glock 9mm for 350 so i think i might take that to top gun one day and try it out.

horrorbusiness
10-24-2010, 06:19 PM
Whats with you guys all wanting to carry semi-autos. It's like having a brick on you. Look into a hammerless doble action revolver. Keep it in a pocket, when shit goes down open fire withot them ever knowing you had a gun. Semi -autos leave spent shells with your finger prints all over the place. S&W 340 pd, the bullets weight more than the gun. This shit ain't checkers, it's chess !

Mad Dog
10-24-2010, 06:41 PM
Been looking at this fine little piece from Smith&Wesson. 5 rounds of .38+P. 14.3oz empty with a laser. A little bigger than a .380 but with a lot more punch. Maybe someday.........
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766382_-1_757893_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Bob
10-24-2010, 07:37 PM
Whats with you guys all wanting to carry semi-autos. It's like having a brick on you. Look into a hammerless doble action revolver. Keep it in a pocket, when shit goes down open fire withot them ever knowing you had a gun. Semi -autos leave spent shells with your finger prints all over the place. S&W 340 pd, the bullets weight more than the gun. This shit ain't checkers, it's chess !

My dad has a nice hammerless Rossi .38.

Gas Man
10-25-2010, 08:47 AM
Whats with you guys all wanting to carry semi-autos. It's like having a brick on you. Look into a hammerless doble action revolver. Keep it in a pocket, when shit goes down open fire withot them ever knowing you had a gun. Semi -autos leave spent shells with your finger prints all over the place. S&W 340 pd, the bullets weight more than the gun. This shit ain't checkers, it's chess !
That's a good point on the spent shells. But I honestly don't think that is going to be an issue. If I have to pull and put a shell out, he'll be dead so I'm pretty sure I'll have to stick around anyway.

YOu guys here about that guy that was getting car jacked, got shot, pulled his pistol shot dead the thief. Free and clear. More of that needs to make the news. Make theives think twice!

redrider
10-25-2010, 10:44 AM
all i will say is spend the most money you can on a handgun it all falls back to whats your life worth?
i know my life is worth alot .
and go and handle a bunch of guns and find the one that fits you hand .
there kind of like helments you have to one that fits. or it's no good.

Gas Man
10-25-2010, 12:41 PM
all i will say is spend the most money you can on a handgun it all falls back to whats your life worth?
i know my life is worth alot .
and go and handle a bunch of guns and find the one that fits you hand .
there kind of like helments you have to one that fits. or it's no good.
Perfect! I totally agree. I know of allot of guns that I like on paper and they are great guns but I don't like the way they feel. That being said, sometimes a grip change or laser add on will also change that to the good or bad.

And again perfect on the value. Bottom line and this goes for EVERYTHING... "you get what you pay for".

Mudpuppy
10-25-2010, 01:21 PM
i am ready to take mine just have to find the time..

telecast
10-25-2010, 01:45 PM
all i will say is spend the most money you can on a handgun it all falls back to whats your life worth?



And again perfect on the value. Bottom line and this goes for EVERYTHING... "you get what you pay for".

Disagree with that part. My Ruger Security Six is one of the most dependable guns in the industry. I paid $300 for it. So by your assertion, it's not going to work as well as a $500 S&W? Bullshit.

By the same token, the little Kel-Tec .380 auto is proven to be extremely dependable. You can buy one for under $300. Same with the Ruger LCP. So, the suggestion that it won't do as well as a $600 Walther PP in .380 is again, bullshit.

I agree you don't want to buy junk, but in this day of polymers and plastics it's no longer about cost. Do research, try some guns. By all means get one that feels right to you, but if you do your homework there is no reason to let price drive your decision.

redrider
10-25-2010, 09:05 PM
Disagree with that part. My Ruger Security Six is one of the most dependable guns in the industry. I paid $300 for it. So by your assertion, it's not going to work as well as a $500 S&W? Bullshit.

By the same token, the little Kel-Tec .380 auto is proven to be extremely dependable. You can buy one for under $300. Same with the Ruger LCP. So, the suggestion that it won't do as well as a $600 Walther PP in .380 is again, bullshit.

I agree you don't want to buy junk, but in this day of polymers and plastics it's no longer about cost. Do research, try some guns. By all means get one that feels right to you, but if you do your homework there is no reason to let price drive your decision.

not going to get bent out this is just the way i feel .

junkyardjon
10-25-2010, 09:33 PM
it's all good and people rarely like the same thing. yall listed names and size and thats what i was looking for, so thanks everybody!

telecast
10-31-2010, 09:57 AM
An eye-opener. Here are several calibers and their effect. The 12" is the minimum requirement for penetration by LE. Note how similar they are. The 9mm has the narrowest wound (not unexpected), but the .357 Sig, .40 Smith and .45 ACP are very close. Note too how well the .40 Smith penetrates, very simlar to the heavier 9mm round.

I remember the when .40 Smith came out, it caused a lot of hoopla. The 10mm came out around the same time and had similar ballistics, but the .40 Smith became the more popular by a big margin.

http://www.ballistics101.com/images/penvsvel/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

RedneckMedic
10-31-2010, 04:48 PM
i went on one call last year and a guy was shot from the passenger seat (he was the driver) with what looked like some type of .40 round in the neck and the bullet almost made it out the other side (when i say almost i meant you could feel it pushing on the skin on the other side of his neck). so say he was shot from 5 feet away using his right hand the round only penetrated about 6 inches or so however he still died from massive blood loss and was dead b4 we arrived so I wonder how accurate those tests are and how far away the shot was taken from and what material they shoot into.

telecast
10-31-2010, 06:53 PM
20' away, and into ballistic gelatin, the stuff they do all the tests with. Obviously the reality is that every situation will differ, and there's no one correct round. Like they say, a well placed shot from a .22 is better than a miss from a .454.

RedneckMedic
10-31-2010, 11:05 PM
20' away, and into ballistic gelatin, the stuff they do all the tests with. Obviously the reality is that every situation will differ, and there's no one correct round. Like they say, a well placed shot from a .22 is better than a miss from a .454.

this is true

sprink
11-01-2010, 08:33 AM
I remember the when .40 Smith came out, it caused a lot of hoopla. The 10mm came out around the same time and had similar ballistics, but the .40 Smith became the more popular by a big margin.



The 10mm was developed because the FBI wanted a more powerful round. If 9 is good, 10 would be better. Colt made the Delta Elite and Smith & Wesson made a line of very good pistils in 10mm. HK chambered their MP5 in 10mm as well.

The FBI still uses the 10mm HK subguns, but found the 10mm too hard to shoot for some agents. S&W shorten the case and reduced the load, creating the 40S&W. 10mm snobs will call it 40 short & weak.

I love 10mm, but don't carry it. A small pistol in 9mm is a lot easier to shoot, and plenty to end a threat.

telecast
11-01-2010, 09:32 AM
The 10mm was developed because the FBI wanted a more powerful round.

Correct. That was shortly after the shootout in FLA where the FBI was hopelessly outgunned by some bad guys. They were shooting 9mm and .38's. Several agents were killed in the process, and the forensic investigation showed that the bad guys had been hit numerous times with the 9's but they didn't even slow down. The actual number of rounds that hit them was incredible. The recommendation was for a harder hitting round, such as the .357 but with higher capacity than a wheel gun.

There was a movie made about it, it starred Michael Gross as the main crook. It was the first "In the Line Of Duty" flim, called "The FBI Murders". It was a pretty good movie for one that was made for TV.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095366/

They also reenacted the whole thing and turned it into an LE training movie. A buddy of mine at the time was a cop, he borught it over and we watched it. It was a nightmare.

Edit: I haven't seen the movie in years, Just went and checked Netflix, they have it. I added it to my queue. If you want to see a good movie with an amazing (and based on the training film I saw, pretty accurate) shootout at the end, check it out.

telecast
11-01-2010, 09:44 AM
Here's a description of the actual fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Bob
11-01-2010, 11:51 AM
i went on one call last year and a guy was shot from the passenger seat (he was the driver) with what looked like some type of .40 round in the neck and the bullet almost made it out the other side (when i say almost i meant you could feel it pushing on the skin on the other side of his neck). so say he was shot from 5 feet away using his right hand the round only penetrated about 6 inches or so however he still died from massive blood loss and was dead b4 we arrived so I wonder how accurate those tests are and how far away the shot was taken from and what material they shoot into.

A lot depends on the ammo itself as well. A fmj is going to perform much different than a hollow tip and each hollow point is going to act differently between manufacturers.

sprink
11-01-2010, 07:27 PM
In the pic telecast provided you can see all bullets performed almost equally. That is because they were designed to provide exactly that performance. Premium ammo uses bullets designed to penetrate over 12 inches, but not too much more. Expend all energy in target, but have to go deep into target.

FBI and other agencies set ammo requirements and the ammo companies provide.

Quality ammo in any caliber is designed to do the job. Some calibers may do it with more enthusiasm.:D

junkyardjon
11-13-2010, 06:48 PM
would these work?
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/plr-16/ M-16 compatible

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/plr-22/